What to look for when buying a dozer

[Deas Plant]

Hi, Folks.
I'm new here but I do have a little experience with dozers - I'm really only just starting to learn about operating all types of earthmoving and construction machinery, having almost gotten my 'smar-tassed' phase out of the way after just 44 years of operating.

Firstly, I would have to say that some of what Eddie Walker had to say is true. Then I would ask, "Eddie, what were you doing at the time that it took you a day with a chainsaw to clear around the back of your machine so that you could tunnel under it to get a blown hose out?"

I always thought that the object of the exercise was to have all the mess IN FRONT of you, on its way to wherever you want it to end up. Mess behind you would seem to indicate that you haven't got your act together. The
'sharp end' of a dozer is in front of you so that you can see what it is that you are trying to do. If you are reversing over trees and brush, etc., you may be sitting up and begging for trouble 'cos many smaller dozers don't have the level of underbelly protection that the bigger ones do.

You claim that dozers are rough on the operator. I would put it to you that they are only as rough on you as you are on the machine. I figured that one out about the second time I went over a bump too fast, 40-odd years ago.

Maybe I'm a bit of a 'medical rarity' but I have spent MANY very pleasant hours 'contemplating my navel', so to speak, while the dozer did the work for me. After all, isn't that why we have machines anyway? Very early in my operating career, I became good enough at operating a dozer that I could do a lot of it on 'auto-pilot', without having to think much about it. Now I admit that this IS easier to do with a bigger machine than a smaller one 'cos they are more stable but I've done it with a few smaller ones too.

Yes, a dozer can take a fair bit out of you until you learn to make the machine work for you instead of you working for it. From the way you write, I'd question whether you have developed much 'feel' for the machines that you have operated. You write of trying to keep your eyes on both sides/ends of the blade. When you develop a good 'feel' for the machine, you will just 'know' most times where the 'other' corner is. I and a lot of other operators do it pretty regularly with blades nearly twice as wide as yours.

You can also learn to 'know' most times when a dozer is going to go over a bump or into a hole by the way the feel of it changes through the seat under your favourite rump steak. This is a learned skill but a hugely handy one to develop - makes it a LOT easier to do a day's work without getting all wore out.

Quote from Eddie Walker:
"Moving dirt and digging ponds can be very difficult if the machine is too light or underpowered to dig into hard packed soil. I ran a John Deere 450G at my place before buying my Case 1550. The Deere just slid across the dirt. If I angled the blade, I could get the tips to dig some, but otherwise, it was useless for digging."
Unquote.

I dunno 'cos I'm just a 'learner' at this 'dozing game but I thought that that was why they fitted rippers to 'dozers, for getting into hard-packed soil. Having a machine properly set up for what you want to do with it is at least half the battle. Don't blame the machine for the fact that you didn't set it up right for what you wanted it to do. Blame yourself for not knowing - or caring - more when you bought it.

For your sake, I hope Case dozers have improved a lot in the nearly 40 years since I had anything to do with them, 'cos they were strictly 'cotton wool' machines way back then, light duty, with the emphasis on the 'light'.

Hi, Flatheadyoungin.
It seems to me that you adopting a sensible approach to buying a machine - finding out all you can about them before making your purchase. Learning about undercarriage wear would be a good place to start. Learning to assess wear from the feel of the bushes in between the track rails and the wear lines on the sprocket teeth and from the height of the rails from running face to track plate. Measuring the length over four links/five pins can give you a good idea of the wear between pins and bushings if you have the chart showing the acceptable limits for the machine you are looking at.

I'd suggest going to your various local dealers and asking them for information and wear charts for the products in their range that you might be interested in buying. Explain why you want these things and see what their reposnse is. This may tell you a bit about the sort of service you might get from them if you do happen to buy one of their machines too.

Hope this helps.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

 

[EddieWalker]

Hi Deas Plant,

Nice to see you over here, and welcome to TBN. I'm used to reading your replies over at HeavyEqupment and look forward to reading your posts over here. Your decades of experience will be much appreciated by those of us who are learning as we go with equipment that we buy for working on our land.

It's nice to hear how it's supposed to be done compared to some of the stunts that I've pulled and learned the hard way. Like you noticed, running over debris wasn't very smart and relying on belly plates to keep those branches out of my hydraulic hoses was proof that I didn't know this. To add to this, I've had some very small pines work there way up past through a gap in those plates and take out the engine oil sensor on the side of my block. Another time, a branch went right through my oil pan. That branch didn't seem very hard or strong enough to do that, even after pulling out of the hole.

The list goes on and on. But it's all part of what happens when a guy who owns a few acres buys a dozer and expects to use it to clear parts of his land. We buy what we can afford and then see what happens. I think my advice and experience was pretty accurate for what he should expect if he buys a dozer.

I'm not sure what your comment about Case was referring to? And you really lost me on your comment "cos they were strictly 'cotton wool' machines" along with them bing light duty. Was that an insult towards me? Case? or just a personal thing?

Is "cotton wool" one of those Australian sayings? What does it mean?

Eddie

 

[Deas Plant]

Hi, Eddie Walker.
Thanks for the welcome.

Re Case and 'cotton wool', no insult intended, just a comment based on some years-old observations. Things may have changed in the intervening years.

Back when I did work around Case machines a bit, they were pretty generally reckoned to be cotton wool machines 'cos you needed to keep them wrapped in cotton wool to avoid breakdowns. The guy I work for now started off with Case machines over 30 years ago. He had them for about 5 years and they nearly broke him - until he bought his first Cat machine, a 941B track loader with 4-in-1 bucket and rippers. He's never looked back.

Isn't it surprising what damage a small stick can do if it hits at just the right angle and speed? If you're going to do much clearing with your currnet machine, you might like to look underneath and see where you can plug any potential entry holes in your belly plates.

Good luck and speedy learning.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

 

[rutwad]

one to do some more cleaning, widening my driveway, build a pond, etc on my land.

First I will say I am no experienced operator, mechanic, or other. But I hope I can still help.

Clearing- depends on what you are clearing and how much.

Widening your driveway- sounds like any will do

Build a pond- ALOT of variables here. Just digging out a hole, pushing a dam, or what?


Eddie is ABSOLUTELY right. Never, ever listen to the person selling the machine, period!

Undercarriage is a major expense that happens regardless of the dozer. It's just a matter of time. You can do some things to prolong the life of the undercarriage by proper maintenance and operating technique. Cat has someone that will come out and do a free undercarriage assessment. Honest or not, who knows? It is sometimes cheaper to stop and have some undercarriage work done than it is to keep running until major undercarriage work is necessary.

I would not be to concerned with hydraulic hoses, but I would check for cylinder leaks.

Personally, I prefer the hydrostat drive like eddie mentioned. But for reliability or repairs, I can't say which is better. Operating the hydrostat is easier.

Blade control, ground speed, RPM's, etc.- That will come with time. Everybody had their own technique and you will develop your own.

A local guy recently bought a Cat D3. It ran great, looked great, original paint, no leaks, etc. Just a nice dozer with several hours left before the undercarriage needed attention. Well all that soon changed. First, the bearing on the idler sprocket went out. Then the oil cooler started leaking from a rusted out hole. Removing the cooler showed beach sand built up around it. Then a roller bearing on the tilt cylinder. Then a hose under the cab- the guy working on it said it was actually 3 hoses with hoes in them. Fuel filter clogged. You get the point. Some things are unforeseeable and you will just have to work through the repairs. Being able to do the work yourself will save you huge $$$$.

Dozer size- smaller will work, but it takes more work and puts more stress on the dozer. The harder it is run, the sooner the repairs come. But if the dozer is just for occasional farm use, you can make do alot of times. Downtime doesn't hurt as when dozing is your business. For the occasional use and not producing income, I can see not wanting to spend alot of money. You may not put many hours on one at all, so the undercarriage may last you quite a while.

Hope I haven't misled you in any direction. Good Luck with your decision!

 

[rtimgray]

I think that Eddie posted some pretty good advice about, particularly, the darker side of bulldozers. A dozer will do things that nothing else will do, but at a price.

I'm a fan of smaller dozers because, to a degree, it keeps me out of trouble. If my little dozer can't push it down, I leave it alone. I have had an old Case 310G for over a year now and have done a lot of clearing, cleaning up burn piles, filling in ditches, and even digging a small pond (that took awhile). So far, all I've had to do is just oil/fluid/filter changes, etc. I do take care when I operate, I don't try to over tax the machine, and it certainly has it's limitations when pushing piles of debris. I just end up making more trips.

I'm with Eddie as far as operating goes - it's fun at first, but it can become work. I like it for about 2 or 3 hours, depending on what I'm doing. After that, I'm getting tired of it. Of course, mine is a straight gear machine, lots of clutching, and steers with hand brakes, so it's kind of operator intensive. However, it has been rare when I've had the time to operate it longer than that.

On the other hand, it is a sort of therapy for me, because nothing compares to tearing down trees and thorns bushes in seconds that would have taken hours by hand - it's kind of satisfying in a "Demolition Man" kind of way.

Take care.

 

[slowzuki]

I'll say on Eddies behalf, our local dirt working contractor won't take his smaller dozers into the woods. He told me it didn't matter who was driving it was just gonna tear them up.

They use large escavators with grapples to clear all the brush and stumps and trees so the u/c never runs over it.

 

[marksmu]

Is there anything a large excavator with a dozer blade on front cant do? My money is on the excavator...now all I have to do is figure out how to buy a $250,000 machine to play with.

Any ideas? Also looking for ways to convince the wife that I REALLLLY do need an excavator. She cant see that light yet.

 

[slowzuki]

Large escavators don't have front blades usually. The U/C is just built to move the machine. Start dozing and you need HD U/C and it will wear like a dozers and cost even more to rebuild.

Only good thing is you can lift your track up easily to get blocking under the U/C.

 

[Egon]

Chances are the best thing to look for when contemplating buying a dozer is a business plan followed by a financial institution that will provide financing!

 

[coopers]

If you plan on using a dozer to clear and dig a pond and widen your road I think you're limiting yourself. Eddie had some good points in his post. I wouldn't buy a dozer just to widen my driveway, I'd rent it. I can't see why it would take more than a day or two to accomplish this mission. Hardly enough to justify buying a dozer. Land clearing with a dozer can be done but in my opinion an excavator is better. You don't see too many land clearing projects with just a dozer, maybe a dozer and an excavator or just an excavator but not just a dozer. I think that using a dozer is really limiting yourself. Constructing a pond can be done with a dozer but again, these other projects you speak of in my opinion would be easier done with an excavator.

I guess I'm of the mind set that unless you have endless projects like Eddie has why waste money on purchasing equipment. You can rent this stuff and devote a set amount of time to get the projects done here and there. If you really feel the need to drag out the projects and accomplish them on your own time or you just simply want equipment, purchasing and maintaining equipment is very expensive. You limit yourself with a budget then you get what you can afford; and sometimes that comes with mechanical headaches unless you can afford newer equipment.

That being said, you're vague on the size and nature of the projects. I can clear land with a 4-5 ton mini excavator or I can use a 16 ton excavator. Pond can be dug by a backhoe, loader, excavator, or dozer. There's too many possibilities right now.

An excavator w/ a dozer blade is a good combo if you don't have too much heavy dozing you want to do. The kobelco bladerunner is a good machine. It can do a little more since it has a 6-way blade. Deere 120's and 135's are also well made machines. I've never used one with a blade but I've used Deere 120's and they are great machines. They are however, expensive.