noobie asking for advice

[newbury]

Tractor/Dozer/skidsteer?
Case/Cat?/?????
I'm another one of those noobies trying to determine what I want to play with in retirement as far as maintaining/reforming land and asking for the knowledge from this group.

What I've got:
My main concern is about 300 acres in NE Mississippi, around Fairview MS. It's scattered around 3 parcels, with a strong option on another 100 acres or so. Eventually I want a square mile.
The land is almost all slightly hilly, with a little bit of swamp. It's virtually all small (30yr old growth) trees or reseeded clearcut. Each piece has old dirt roads on that are in dire need of repair.
I've relatives with trailers, forklift, small tractors, 5 ton dumps that I could borrow on occasion. And they know something about fixing equipment.
(They also have young men to help in the occasional load unload situation.)
I've got a Ford E350 w/ a 7.3L Diesel to tow stuff around and a flatbed to put stuff on.

What I want to do:
Bring the roads up to non mudhole standards, put in some decent gates and earth berms to limit access.
Fix some of the land up for better tree farming
Spruce up a few old house sites such that I can drop an ISO container in as a small deer camp.
Put in a few fish ponds and build up a couple of existing ponds, all small ponds.
And have a toy that can move the occasional medium size stump or VW Beetle.

And I want to do most all of it in my own time when the weather is fair.

My experience with construction equipment has been limited to when I was about 14 to 20 we maintained a 30 acre parcel in Vermont, cleared brush, mowed, tilled, plowed with about a 20hp tractor. I've driven larger tractors, semi's and the occasional forklift so I'm confident I can handle the machinery. I plan on having at least a 30x40 shed for equipment, but my goal is more operating than wrenching.

I figured I'll need something about 50hp diesel to do what I want.

When I started adding up the potential cost of renting something for $1,000+ a month or buying used it looked like used may be better.

I originally thought I'd need a small dozer, but after a little reading it looks like a skid steer would fit better

So - suggestions and links please ?
What's the best equipment and brands for under $15K? under $25K?
All info appreciated.

 

[Pfm1011]

My recommendation is a small to medium Track Loader. They have substantially less psi on the ground then a skid steer. ( for the wet ) I would go with a Takeuchi TL130 or 140 with normal aux hydraulics. They will outlast and outperform any unit outthere with substantially less maintenance. Either model with 1000 or less hours can be found under 20k in very good shape ( 06 or 07)

They are also sold by Gehl and Mustang with different paint. The mustang and Gehls sell for less due to brand recognition and the only difference is cab height. ( Each come from takeuchi without cab)

The takeuchi ( gehl , Mustang) will outpush any other unit by 2 to 1 ( Literally) and operate substantially cheaper.One important advantage of these machines is the lack of electronics on board. Very dependable design.

Skid steers/ track loaders give you a huge amount of options for attachments. Tons of buckets, mowers , dozer blades, trenchers , posthole diggles, tree spades, grapples etc . The list is endless and a pile of good used out there if you shop.

Ive got 150 acres and a tractor doesnt touch what the skid steer does in the field/bush
in terms of functionality.

 

[jgrreed]

I'd agree with the track loader/tracked skidsteer choice.

I have a 58hp compact utility tractor (CUT) and love it, but I think it wouldn't be the right tool for all the dirt moving and heavy work you want to do.

I've run a JD 332 on tracks, a Cat 262 on wheels, and a Bobcat 300T on tracks, not professionally, just for weekend jobs (motocross track, landscaping, fencing with PHD). The cab of the Cat was fantastic. The JD was a great too, less techie, but very solid. The Bobcat was also a very nice cab.

I'd definitely go with a tracked unit rather than wheeled. They're much more stable and smooth, but the tracks are expensive if and when they need to be replaced (~5k on my BIL's ASV's I think). I did manage to pop the bead off a tire on the 262 by turning on a very small root with little effort.

The smorgasbord of attachments for skidsteers is huge, but can be expensive. They are built much heavier than CUT attachments though. I worry about twisting the arms on my FEL by working it too hard. I doubt that'd be a worry with a SS.

I considered a skidsteer before I bought my tractor. My reasoning for going with the tractor was that I wanted one machine to do it all like mow grass, rototill, move bales, etc. I now realize that I could've done all that with a bobcat, been able to move more dirt and snow quicker than my tractor, and have the maneuverability of the SS. I've since realized that my 4720 is not going to be a great manicured lawn machine, and will be buying a zero turn machine once my lawn is ready, in 2013......

I think I just talked myself into wishing I had a skidsteer......

In my limited experience, a Cat would be my choice.

On another note, it's a good time to buy. Some friends of mine have grabbed some really good deals on SS's and minihoes secondary to others misfortune (foreclosures) due the the downturn in the economy.

-Jer.

 

[newbury]

Thanks for the info.
Anyone know the relability of add-on tracks?
Like Loegering's Versatile Track System (VTS) Loegering :: MAKE TRACKS

 

[BarryinMN]

Welcome to TBN. Look around the archives for lots of good advise here.

I have done several of the things you are thinking of doing.

First observation is the budget is a little light. 3x 4x or even 10x would not be unreasonable as you want to operate vs wrench. Reliability takes more capital and even then the warranty times out after 1-3 years.

Not to be discouraging but 1 machine leads to another, etc...

Skid steers are handy as a shirt pocket but they are also a young mans sport as you are in the dirt and wearing the dirt. Outstanding precision has drawbacks such as; bouncing around in it more than an hour or 2 gets really old, climbing in and out - you get the idea. My old Deere SS has a parking maintenance boom lock that allows walking up and step in/out of the machine. I do not show visitors (new operators) that feature as the rule is boom down engine off before getting out.

Dozer is a great tool for pushing or pulling. Nothing like the clanking tracks and deep rumble of that diesel on a hard pull with a disc on a sidehill in the Spring. Even the Fawns come out to listen & watch.

Your all around first pick might be a tractor loader backhoe. It's going to hanndle the dirt while keeping you up and away from the mess might even have a little breeze back up there - beats sitting on a hot hydraulic tank for hours. The backhoe easily excavates the soft spots, packs new fill (poor man's vibratory roller) takes out root balls and makes loose spoil when needing more dirt.

Hire out a mulcher for clearing, and buy an ag tractor mower for maintenance, cheaper than a SS and again up and out of the debris.

A couple of sites that may interest you:
www.acmoc.org
www.heavyequipmentforums.com

 

[Pfm1011]

You definately want a cab and heat/ac in a track loader,

As per the bouncing etc. The Takeuchi have a much heavier stable feel, Less bouncy

Keep away from CAT and ASV, Their undercarriage is extremely weak and expensive to run. Its built for comfort however you can expect $10 per hour in under carriage repairs and track replacement. How bad is the undercarriage? , Cat is trying to design their own and have sold their shares in ASV , ( run away)

Additionally the cat /asv controls seem to have alot of problems with hesitation after 5 or 600 hours.

ASV are big on here since they were really the first with high flow ( 40 gpm for mulching) But now most have the 40gpm option . It is something that you will only need if you are buying fecon or similar mulching head ( 20K plus just for the head)

Bobcats have too much electronics and are pricey.

Takeuchi invented the track loader and has been building them for 25 years, Bobcat 8 years

Loegering kits etc. Waste of time and money as they are essentially a bandaid and you can buy a very good track loader with a few hundred hours very cheap. A track loader that is meant to be a track loader. The loegering kits are no different then wheel kits for ski-doos.


Here is a quote from another thread on here

"Let me add my two cents. I have owned several ASV's and now own my first Tak 150 (Modified by super tracks, but still the same base machine)

The Tak will push the ASV around... The traction force placed on the ground for the ASV is around 6000lbs, vs the Tak at 13,200 lbs. That's only a few hundred pounds shy of a CAT D3 dozer.

The Tak rides like a dozer, but I can deal with that. I would NOT recomend an ASV over a Tak.

If you are looking at a CAT, it is essentially the same ( I know some will disagree with me, but oh well..) as the ASV. Maybe a little more dependable. The joke is that my ASVs will work for 40 hours, then have to go to the shop. I now have over 400 hours on my Tak, and it has only been in the shop once"


Nice bonus on the Takeuchi is also the roll up door so you can operate with the front door open. With the windows down and the door up it is a nice open cab, close it up on cold /hot dusty days.

All others you have to operate closed all the time which can get tight fast. ( takeuchi cabs are also the biggest out there)

 

[Digdeep]

I guess I'll throw my $.02 in the ring. The first thing I would tell you would be to demo all of the machines you are looking at. Secondly, look long and hard at product support from your local dealer. Thirdly, don't buy all of that "run away from ASV garbage". I was a Bobcat salesman and store manager for over 8 years in Wisconsin and I personally sold over 200 of their tracked units. I left sales to go into teaching and now teach 8th grade math and do landscaping all summer and snow removal on the side. I own a ASV RC50 and there is a reason for it (S220 too). I've seen and heard all of the horror stories about them first hand and they simply aren't true. I ended up with the ASV because I know what it costs to run a Bobcat and it is more than the ASV- I saw it time and time again. I just replaced my tracks before the first snow fell and they had just over 2000hours. Their machines are made from the ground up to be balanced, narrow, and productive in a wide range of applications. I'm not trying to steer you to ASV, and Takeuchi does make a good machine too (they've both been making tracked machine longer than all of the others). Try them all out and base your purchase off of your own results. Good luck.

 

[Terra Firma Scott]

I agree with the tracked steer-Which ever brand you decide on whether its because of price or dependabilty just remember this...It can and will break down at some point and it sure is nice to have a dealer nearby.......one that can get parts quick and offers a great affordable service department....did i say affordable?...?? its an expensive venture-

welcome to TBN....

 

[Cat_Driver]

I've been on this site off and on since 1989 and like most I thought tractor. Then when it was time to move up for more lifting power I was all set to order a new tractor then someone (probably right here ) was talking about a track loader.

I never thought about a track loader in a million years, then I started looking at videos on you tube and looking at the lifting specs I started to get interested.

The one thing that sold me is someone said the track loader is the Swiss Army Knives of tractors, then I had an AH HA moment. Yep with all the various attachments the Cat I purchased is invaluable.

I do more work in a typical day than I could ever have accomplished with the tractor I has.

The tracks float over the deep sand I deal with and best of all I never ever get flats. Flats used to kill me and shut me down for hours, much less the cost.

I usually work alone so switching from one attachment to another is great depending on my needs, and I can switch back and for several in a day.

I purchased a trencher that cuts trenches in a tenth of the time when I used the backhoe.

Here are some shots of me walking a super heavy Date Palm tree. Dug it out, plucked it and planted it all on my own, not bragging just showing the versatility.

I could never have hoped to lift that with a tractor.

Put the grappler on and clean up is a breeze.

 

[8934]

I was in the same situation 6-8 months ago, and was considering buying a tracked skid steer. My neighbor who owns a sizable heavy equipment company quickly talked me out of it, I valued his advice an took it.

He said that they while they did have a purpose, and did have some advantages they were very expensive to purchase and maintain and strongly urged me to purchase a tractor.

He told me about the rough ride, what he spent to replace tracks, and the wearable parts of the undercarrage. He also told me about several times he hit unseen objects with his hydraulic mower attachement, and the thousands of dollars in repair costs.

So for me a tractor was the best choice, lower initial cost, lower maintence costs, cheaper attachments. But I also need to do a lot of mowing.

I also purchased a mini excavator, which has been very usefull.

Look at what you want to do, not only initially, but over the long haul, and your budget. Consider getting more than one machine, or buying used. You can get some great deals with the current economic situation.