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  1. #1
    Elite Member
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    EarthForce EF-5 mini-TLB (2001)

    Default Ingersoll-Rand Loader-Backhoes

    According to the May 2002 Equipment Today magazine, which I got in the mail today, on page 16, Ingersoll-Rand is introducing a new line of Loader-Backhoes.

    Designated the 270, 370, 470, and 570 compact loader-backhoes, they range from 31.5 to 56 hp and feature dig depths up to 12 feet. Also among the feature of this new line are kubota engines, four-wheel-drive and full-time four-wheel-steering, standard front auxilliary hydraulics and FEL quick-coupler (both Bobcat compatible), and optional cab w/heat, backhoe buckets from 12" to 40", rear auxilliary hydraulics, and multipurpose loader buckets.

    They even showed a small picture of one. And yes, they're the same EarthForce machines, but it appears the name "EarthForce" has been dropped from their vocabulary.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Charlie_Iliff's Avatar
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    Jun 2001
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    1,896
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    Arnold, MD
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    Power Trac PT1845, John Deere 2240, John Deere 950, John Deere 755, Jacobsen Turf Cat II

    Default Re: Ingersoll-Rand Loader-Backhoes

    <font color=red>the name "EarthForce" has been dropped from their vocabulary. </font color=red>

    So, given your known affection for skid steers, I assume you'll pass on the parent name and ask Muhammad to include you in a Bobcat forum, in the hope that the Gatorboy and others in the Bobcat cult in Construction Equipment will think better of your EF-5, right?

  3. #3
    Elite Member
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    EarthForce EF-5 mini-TLB (2001)

    Default Re: Ingersoll-Rand Loader-Backhoes

    No, in Popeye's famous words: "I yam what I yam."

    On the other hand, my EarthForce ain't what it ain't. And it ain't a Bobcat. If it was 3 sizes smaller, then it might be a Bobcat, and if it was 4 or more sizes smaller, it would definitely be a Bobcat. But it ain't what it ain't. It's an EarthForce with an I-R logo on it. And if I were buying it today, it would be 70 better (a 570 instead of a 500), and just an Ingersoll-Rand. I guess. Oh well, it's still the same machine, made in the same factory, out of the same parts. Only the color is different. And mine's different, anyway (eh, Harv?)... [img]/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  4. #4
    Super Member
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    May 2002
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    5,915
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    Wylie, Texas
    Tractor
    JCB165HF

    Default Re: Ingersoll-Rand Loader-Backhoes

    That looks like a great small backhoe frontloader.

    Actually it's about four thousand pounds lighter than a regular backhoe loader and it's at least thirty horsepower short of any skid loader of comparable weight.

    Is it tradional drive? Differentials, transmission, etc. That would explain it not needing the high horsepower required by the skid steers.

    I can see where you'd love it. It looks like someone finally decided the Terramite market needed a real tractor besides the JCB in the mix.

  5. #5
    Elite Member
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    EarthForce EF-5 mini-TLB (2001)

    Default Re: Ingersoll-Rand Loader-Backhoes

    wroughtn_harv - First, a little background, in case you don't already know: EarthForce, the original company, was purchased by I-R, who, of course, also owns Bobcat. They've recently decided to split the EarthForce line into two parts - the machines that were EarthForce's 250 and smaller would go to Bobcat dealers, and the old 250 and bigger machines would be sold by I-R dealers and the existing EarthForce dealers. I thought both groups would keep the EarthForce name, but clearly that's not now the case, at least with the I-R units, unless the ad was incorrect.

    The I-R TLB's are powered by hydraulic pumps and motors, but via more efficient differentials and transfer cases, and 4-wheel-steering, than the skid steer approach. Sufficient power is achieved by using a much larger motor than pump, which of course sacrifices speed, but since the motor is also variable displacement, you can get it back if the torque requirements allow. Besides a 2.something reduction in the differentials, there's also a 6 to 1 planetary drive at each wheel.

    Another reason they don't have as high a horsepower requirement as the larger skid steers, despite having higher FEL and backhoe capacities, is that they don't offer the high-volume auxilliary hydraulics that the skid steers do.

    I considered both the Terramite and JCB machines before buying the EarthForce EF-500. I had also seen the specs for the JD 110, though the unit itself hadn't been released. None of them can come close to the EF-500's specs for the money, in my book. The thing that really most amazes me is the pushing force it will generate with those 4 (relatively) small tires - much more than my kubota L4310 with 19.5LR24 Michelin XM27's would. (I can't wait to see how much better it'll do when I get around to putting the XM27's on the EF-500.) Of course, if you get it in deep mud, it's out of it's element, but at least you've got a backhoe to drag yourself out with... [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...




    Bobcat A220 &amp; A300 World’s First All-Wheel Steer / Skid-steer Loader…

    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bobcat.com/servlet/TurbineServlet/template/%2Cproducts%2CAWSIndex.vm>Spec &amp; Video Demo…</A>

    Hi Mark...

    Did this unit come as a result of IR buying EarthForce...?
    (I just saw an ad in one of my auction books)


  7. #7
    Elite Member
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    EarthForce EF-5 mini-TLB (2001)

    Default Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

    JM III - No, it's a coincidence. In fact, when I was researching a replacement machine for the L4310, I visited a Bobcat dealer. (I may hate skid steers, but I try to have an open mind...) He showed me a copy of a manual for the new all-wheel-steer Bobcat, and this was just before the I-R purchase of EarthForce was announced. Unfortunately, however, the Bobcat doesn't have the ability to carry rear attachments, so I wasn't interested.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

    <font color=blue>...I may hate skid steers...</font color=blue>

    I basically know your feelings toward skid steers... but never really knew why....so...


    Why...? [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]


  9. #9
    Elite Member
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    EarthForce EF-5 mini-TLB (2001)

    Default Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

    JM III - Whaddaya tryin' ta do, make me public enemy #1? [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Well, here's a couple of quotes from previous posts:

    <font color=red>In response to a message from Phatboy, mentioning the JCB TLB as an alternative to the EF and asking why I hate skid steers:</font color=red> "The JCB is about 40% more expensive and doesn't have HST. If you're a new member, you may not have been around for all the HST vs. whatever discussions, so you may also not remember my motto "No HST - no interest."

    I hate skid steers because 1) I hate the skid steering concept specifically (in a tire vehicle) 2) I hate the skidding, and the damage it does to the surface 3) I hate the ingress/egress method 4) I hate the confined cabins 5) I hate all the operator lockouts 6) I hate the suspension, or rather the complete lack thereof 7) I hate only having one implement at a time 8) I hate the visibility. That's the best I could come up with in less than 3 minutes, and I'm sure I left out a lot, but that gives you an overall idea - like I said, I hate skid steers. I don't claim to have given them a completely fair shake, but I've used them a couple hundred hours, and I still hate them. No, that's not quite fair - actually, I loathe them."


    <font color=red>In response to a message from Rat asking if I'd heard about the new all-wheel-steer Bobcat:</font color=red> "Yeah, I've heard about it, and looked through a copy of the owner's manual for one at a dealer. It's not a T190, though - that's the track loader. I forget the model designation of the new one, but it hasn't been formally announced yet, I don't think - that's supposedly going to be at the FL equipment show, whenever that is - soon I think.

    It looks very interesting, and proves my point all along - that there are a lot of folks who aren't impressed by skid steers and won't be convinced to ignore their shortcomings because of popular opinion and millions of dollars of advertising. The dealer who showed me the manual did so after telling me at least a dozen times - in response to my list of the reasons I hate skid steers (he asked, so he started it) - "Well, there's a lot of people using them for what you're doing." Finally, I told him "Look, you're not going to convince me by telling me that lots of other people are using them. Most people don't think. They do what the dealer tells them to do, or what the dealer tells them "everybody else" is doing. Give it up. Either address the issues, or just listen." (I was nicer about it than the printed version of my statement sounds. Actually, I liked him - he was genuinely trying to be helpful - he'd just been to too many "dealer sales seminars" and I must not be his average customer. ) At that point, he listened a while, then said "Have you heard about the new Bobcat with 4-wheel-steering and crab steering? It hasn't been announced yet, but I've got a manual for it." You can imagine what my reaction was. "Why did you just spend 3/4 of an hour trying to convince me I'm wrong, then give up and prove to me that Bobcat corporate knows I'm right?"

    All that said, the new machine is no EarthForce, by any stretch. Then again, I guess most folks don't need an EarthForce. The biggest difference between the EarthForce and the new Bobcat, other than capacity when you get into the EF-3 class and up, is the ability of the EarthForce to have a backhoe (or whatever else will attach to a backhoe/mini-excavator) follow it around all the time. Of course, there's some mobility/space requirement compromises in favor of the new Bobcat there, too. Nothing comes without compromise..."

    Does that help? [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

    <font color=blue>...Does that help?...</font color=blue>

    Uh ahhhh...

    Mark...

    I've got to go...

    Before the bombs start dropping... [img]/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif[/img]

    [img]/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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