jgh
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2000
- Messages
- 474
- Location
- Goochland & Fluvanna Counties, VA
- Tractor
- NH TN90F; B3000 Kubota; Bobcats 430 & A300; Liebherr 621C, Exmark laser Z, 2 sawmills
9/7
Wow, you guys have been busy last few days. One of the reasons I have not been on here much until last night was looking at excavators.
Del, you should write professionally. I almost cried I laughed so hard, though you are brave to even recall some of the stuff that has happened to you.
Right before easing into that ditch did you yell, "Hey buddy, I'm a heavy equipment operator..." to one of your logger friends?
/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
[sorry could not resist, 'least you know I read your stuff, huh?]
Seriously I appreciate your thoughts (after all you got me started--don't worry I won't give your addr to my wife /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif), let me add a couple.
Fixing the things is expensive, but smart shopping can save $$ since many parts are generic (most pumps are Bosch, etc). Handling a multi-ton machine is where some of the cost comes in. How much cheaper are construction backhoes to repair?
The cost of rubber is about right. On a Yanmar B50-2 (1993) gray mkt being sold by Wakita (the US Yanmar excavator importer), Ken Byrd (their pres) mentioned about $2500 per side+labor to replace.
You can figure wt on an excavator from the model #:
For Yanmar, Komatsu, and many others, the (metric, 2200#) tonnage is the model / by ten, or similar. ie, B50 is 5 tons, Cat (remove the leading 3) 307 is 7 tons.
"Maximum" and other digging depths are tricky. Like farm tractor hoes, you have to watch the rating method, 2 ft flat bottom, vertical wall, etc.
Controls are really easy to run. With modern pilot hydraulics (where a light duty line runs thru the controls to relay your directions to the heavy lines actuating the bucket, stick, etc), it is easy to look good /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif.
They are quiet /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif! The small Japanese engines found in almost every one I have seen are whisperers. Even the German built Shaeff uses a Mitsubishi powerplant.
Engine HP varies across brands on similar size machines, something no one has explained yet.
Consider zero tail swing if you are going to work in close quarters. It means that if you can get the bottom of it near something, the rear of the carbody will not hit the building, etc /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif. But the bucket still can /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif.
Extended hoes can be found if rarely. Much less common than with backhoes. The Yanmar B27-2B is one, 5 ft wide and about 7500#, but will dig over 12 ft, normally only done by a 5 ton. Bobcat 331E is similar.
Ken of Yanmar/Wakita has several extended hoe B27s he would really like to sell, new and reasonable.
Offset booms/sticks can be found, but there is some compromise on power.
Rental yards like the Bobcats. Reason, unknown. They tend to sell them off soon (2 yrs) and high, per the prices on rental sale sites.
Gray market machines have their origin in the bad economy over in Japan a few years back, I believe. Nothing sinister, and the prices are good. Most have US parts suppliers (Yanmar, Komatsu, etc), but I would buy an English service manual before the deal is dry as did Del.
Look ma no tracks--if you want to see a really weird machine, see this one, a 6 ton Komatsu:
http://www.beveragetractor.com/komatsu4.htm
Couple of other references:
Major article on buying used excavators in Equipment World:
http://www.equipmentworld.com/frames/magazine/story2.htm
general article on mini/compact excavators
http://www.equipmentworld.com/frames/magazine/archives/9912/9912feature1.htm
To wrap this up-The local Cat dealer has a few he wants me to see, but they are pretty high, so I am leaning toward working on that B50-2 with 2000 hours and about 60% left on the rubber-covered gold tracks, for an asking price of $18 (before any bargaining). No warranty, though 30 days love it or return it seems to reign on these things. I guess your shaking out the bugs for them has some value if does come back, who knows.
I would bet as the others say, that with the multi-modal positioning and relatively small size that a mini/small-excavator offers, it is one versatile big hydraulic pump.
How 'bout it, Del & Cowboy, what did I miss?
Jim
Wow, you guys have been busy last few days. One of the reasons I have not been on here much until last night was looking at excavators.
Del, you should write professionally. I almost cried I laughed so hard, though you are brave to even recall some of the stuff that has happened to you.
Right before easing into that ditch did you yell, "Hey buddy, I'm a heavy equipment operator..." to one of your logger friends?
/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
[sorry could not resist, 'least you know I read your stuff, huh?]
Seriously I appreciate your thoughts (after all you got me started--don't worry I won't give your addr to my wife /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif), let me add a couple.
Fixing the things is expensive, but smart shopping can save $$ since many parts are generic (most pumps are Bosch, etc). Handling a multi-ton machine is where some of the cost comes in. How much cheaper are construction backhoes to repair?
The cost of rubber is about right. On a Yanmar B50-2 (1993) gray mkt being sold by Wakita (the US Yanmar excavator importer), Ken Byrd (their pres) mentioned about $2500 per side+labor to replace.
You can figure wt on an excavator from the model #:
For Yanmar, Komatsu, and many others, the (metric, 2200#) tonnage is the model / by ten, or similar. ie, B50 is 5 tons, Cat (remove the leading 3) 307 is 7 tons.
"Maximum" and other digging depths are tricky. Like farm tractor hoes, you have to watch the rating method, 2 ft flat bottom, vertical wall, etc.
Controls are really easy to run. With modern pilot hydraulics (where a light duty line runs thru the controls to relay your directions to the heavy lines actuating the bucket, stick, etc), it is easy to look good /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif.
They are quiet /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif! The small Japanese engines found in almost every one I have seen are whisperers. Even the German built Shaeff uses a Mitsubishi powerplant.
Engine HP varies across brands on similar size machines, something no one has explained yet.
Consider zero tail swing if you are going to work in close quarters. It means that if you can get the bottom of it near something, the rear of the carbody will not hit the building, etc /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif. But the bucket still can /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif.
Extended hoes can be found if rarely. Much less common than with backhoes. The Yanmar B27-2B is one, 5 ft wide and about 7500#, but will dig over 12 ft, normally only done by a 5 ton. Bobcat 331E is similar.
Ken of Yanmar/Wakita has several extended hoe B27s he would really like to sell, new and reasonable.
Offset booms/sticks can be found, but there is some compromise on power.
Rental yards like the Bobcats. Reason, unknown. They tend to sell them off soon (2 yrs) and high, per the prices on rental sale sites.
Gray market machines have their origin in the bad economy over in Japan a few years back, I believe. Nothing sinister, and the prices are good. Most have US parts suppliers (Yanmar, Komatsu, etc), but I would buy an English service manual before the deal is dry as did Del.
Look ma no tracks--if you want to see a really weird machine, see this one, a 6 ton Komatsu:
http://www.beveragetractor.com/komatsu4.htm
Couple of other references:
Major article on buying used excavators in Equipment World:
http://www.equipmentworld.com/frames/magazine/story2.htm
general article on mini/compact excavators
http://www.equipmentworld.com/frames/magazine/archives/9912/9912feature1.htm
To wrap this up-The local Cat dealer has a few he wants me to see, but they are pretty high, so I am leaning toward working on that B50-2 with 2000 hours and about 60% left on the rubber-covered gold tracks, for an asking price of $18 (before any bargaining). No warranty, though 30 days love it or return it seems to reign on these things. I guess your shaking out the bugs for them has some value if does come back, who knows.
I would bet as the others say, that with the multi-modal positioning and relatively small size that a mini/small-excavator offers, it is one versatile big hydraulic pump.
How 'bout it, Del & Cowboy, what did I miss?
Jim