Best Steel for Backhoe Pins/Bushings

[LD1]

I find 1144 Stressproof sufficient for pins. Works easily but welds poorly, but with a pin no welding is required.

There is a little welding required, on "some" of the pins, but not major. Just a tab with a hole to prevent the pin from spinning. Only a few pins are like that. The majority though are free spinning and use a large snapring.

Do you think it will weld well enough for that?? I dont think 4140 welds well either.

[Recoveryhill]

[QUOTE=LD1;2792250]Recovery: I do appreciate your input and your opinions.

Thanks LD1 but:

Kubota model LA643 Loader Manufacturer's manual parts list; <Boom> (Part numbers excluded for brevity):

Stand
Pin, Spring Lock
Pin,
Circlip
Boom
Fitting, Grease
Label, Kubota
Label, LA463
Pin 1
Pin2
Pin 4
Pin 5
Bolt
Nut lock

<Bucket, pin on>, Kubota Parts Manual"
Bucket 60
Edge 1 cutting
Edge 2 cutting
Label, Leveler
Pin 3
Fitting, grease
Hex bolt
Nut, lock

Are bushings missing in this Parts List, due to a misprint by Kubota?

The worst information is incorrect information, especially where if followed will scorch someone's wallet. Out of respect, I assume you have encountered press in bushings in equipment you have encountered but at the very least, one can be assured that manufacturing costs, associated with "average" duty equipment precludes line boring bosses and secondary installation of hardened bushings.

My advice is to go with "soft" pins, 1144 or less, grease frequently and replace pins when slop is obvious.

Peace.

[LD1]

[quote=Recoveryhill;2793724]

Recovery: I do appreciate your input and your opinions.

Thanks LD1 but:

Kubota model LA463 Loader Manufacturer's manual parts list; <Boom> (Part numbers excluded for brevity):

<snip>

Are bushings missing in this Parts List, due to a misprint by Kubota?

I know my kubota FEL doesnt have bushings. And yes...it is light duty.

But I am talking about my 1967 Ford 5500 industrial backhoe. A 18,000lb machine. And I assure you, there are bushings. And they are hard, as are the pins.

If we were talking about my weak FEL on my 'bota, I wouldnt even be asking these questions. I would just make them out of mild steel and be done. But I am pretty sure working with an industrial 18k lb machine, things are a bit different.

[Lunker]

for my Kubota LA450A I used 1" hot roll. It is a little 'fatter' than cold roll and the original pins - which is what I needed since the bushing were somewhat worn - and welded on... Also I wanted the pins to be the wear item so I never considered anything harder.

And the stuff is so cheap - maybe it was $5/foot? - I bought 6' - should last awhile!

-Nick

[magicheater]

There is a little welding required, on "some" of the pins, but not major. Just a tab with a hole to prevent the pin from spinning. Only a few pins are like that. The majority though are free spinning and use a large snapring.

Do you think it will weld well enough for that?? I dont think 4140 welds well either.

4140 will TIG weld better than 1144 stressproof. All my research indicates that. You could use 1045 and harden it but would have the extra process involved. That is why 1144 Stressproof was developed, no extra process. Sounds like you need some really hard pins...

[Brad_Blazer]

If you want to harden steel yourself use O1 or W1. Simple to quench and temper. Professional shops like the air hardening steels but they require a special oven. O1 welds better. I made some special pins for my BH swing chain attachment points out of W1 and they are holding up well so far.
Read about them on McMaster, click on "About steel" for more:
McMaster-Carr

Nice O1 or W1 drill rod is inexpensive at McMaster. Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies also usually has it in their monthly Hot Deals.

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I think RecoveryHill is right. I'd replace the bushings with the 4140 pre-hard and use softer material for the pins. Shear #'s are very high. Wear only happens without grease or extreme pressure.

[LD1]

for my Kubota LA450A I used 1" hot roll. It is a little 'fatter' than cold roll and the original pins - which is what I needed since the bushing were somewhat worn - and welded on... Also I wanted the pins to be the wear item so I never considered anything harder.

And the stuff is so cheap - maybe it was $5/foot? - I bought 6' - should last awhile!

-Nick

Loaders are a totally different animal, and dont see near the abuse of a backhoe.

4140 will TIG weld better than 1144 stressproof. All my research indicates that. You could use 1045 and harden it but would have the extra process involved. That is why 1144 Stressproof was developed, no extra process. Sounds like you need some really hard pins...

That is good to know. I know we used 4140 for both pins and bushings on dads BH, and there was only one pin that needed welded. Just a big square peice to keep it form spinning. It welded okay. 4140 is probabally what I will end up using.

If you want to harden steel yourself use O1 or W1. Simple to quench and temper. Professional shops like the air hardening steels but they require a special oven. O1 welds better. I made some special pins for my BH swing chain attachment points out of W1 and they are holding up well so far.
Read about them on McMaster, click on "About steel" for more:
McMaster-Carr

Nice O1 or W1 drill rod is inexpensive at McMaster. Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies also usually has it in their monthly Hot Deals.

I really dont want to try a hack-job at hardening myself. Best I would even be able to do is heat with a rosebud and drop in a pail of water. Not really somthing I want to try on this. And then if the heat treating distorts them at all...

I think RecoveryHill is right. I'd replace the bushings with the 4140 pre-hard and use softer material for the pins. Shear #'s are very high. Wear only happens without grease or extreme pressure.

What would you reccomend as a "softer" material that would still be strong enough for BH use?? Maybe 4140 bushings and 1144 pins??? There isnt much "hardness" difference between them. Would 1018 or 1045 in the UNHARDENED state be "tough" enough???

[wdchyd]

I use 1045 (hyd rod stock) all the time for both pins and pin bosses, mainly cuz I have an abundance of scrap/old stuff....it works and welds great

Easy to harden pins with torch and bucket of water.....not rocket science on most equipment...

[LD1]

I use 1045 (hyd rod stock) all the time for both pins and pin bosses, mainly cuz I have an abundance of scrap/old stuff....it works and welds great

Easy to harden pins with torch and bucket of water.....not rocket science on most equipment...

Do you normally harden then once you make them?? Or do you normally just use the 1045 as is??

1045 isnt much cheaper than pre-hard 4140 or 1144. For 6' of 2", 1045 is $130, 1144 is $140, ad 4140 is $150.

If I can spend the extra $20 and not have to worry about hardening with a torch, I think that is money well spent.

Now if I had a lot of 1045 already on hand, I would probabally use it. But I dont. So since I have to order...

How hard do you suppose you are getting that 1045 to???

I guess that is the big question I need answered at the moment. What is the optimum RC hardness for the pins and bushings?? Because I guess that will dictate the material to use. If ~30 is okay, I'd rather stick to the 4140 and not have to worry about further hardening.