advice on a dozer plz

[rusty0007]

Jdtractor, Thanks for the insight, especially since you own this model and year. I went ahead and bought it today. Its not going to win any beauty contests but seems solid. I ran it for about an hour, pretty hard. The trans temp never really got over about 1/4 into the green, same with the engine temp. It started right up and didn't smoke a bit. It steers crisply and clutched and ran thru the gears perfectly. The only thing I noticed is that when shifting to reverse it seemed to have a slight delay before it engaged. But, it wasn't a slip at all, just a pause. I'd say less than 1 second. This happened warm or cold. The owner said he always clutched between directions using the powershifter. The U/C was documented being replaced 1 month before he bought it 18 months ago. It was 100% when he bought it and he says hes put about 200 hours on it in the last 18 months. Tracks and sprockets look great. From looking at his place and the work hes done, I agree with the time. Also, he obviously didn't work it too hard doing what hes done. The 6 way balde is a bit loose. Bushings I assume. All the hydraulics work flawlessly and I didn't see any leaks. The oil was black, as expected, but it had good viscosity and not milky or anything. Hydraulic fluid was clear, looked good.

I wasn't able to work it real real hard, it was pretty muddy and it was around 32 degrees outside. The cab is missing some glass (its an aftermarket cab I found out, a Sims) and the air units wiring was not connected, but he said it worked for him. He just didn't use it because he broke out one of the front windows so it was sorta worthless. The ripper worked as designed. The slope boards were removed but they were there, cylinders looked good on those.

Other than being dinged up and ugly, I think its a solid rig. Hopefully Im not wrong. Thanks for everyones help!

 

[Turbys_1700]

You got a solid rig at a good price...
We have two older Cats on the farm...
A D4D dozer and 941B loader...
Very nice to have at your disposal...
Shoot us some action pics when you get a chance...

 

[Bob Rooks]

Too late now, but I would have invested in a few oil samples before I bought it.

 

[rusty0007]

Too late now, but I would have invested in a few oil samples before I bought it.

Yeah, I thought about that. Probably would have been prudent. This is going to sound silly but I personally don't have a lot of faith in them, here's why. I recently lemon lawed a 2011 Dodge Cummins for oil dilution. Their DEF system causes quite a bit of fuel dilution/contamination in the oil. For reference, after 2500 miles this truck had about 12%-17% dilution.Cummins specs are 2% or so. So, at any given time I had over a quart or two of diesel mixed with my lube oil. Not really good for bearings and such. BUT, I had to prove it was causing damage. So, I ran around 6 oil samples over 3 oil changes using 2 different labs. Three samples x two labs. The samples were taken at the same time in mid-stream of a crankcase drain. Guess how many answers I got? Every time, two vastly different results. These were enhanced tests ran by Polaris and Blackstone, both were way different. Even something as simple as copper content was way different results. I couldn't pin point which lab was wrong either. Both had varying results on different things. What this did was cause me (and Chrysler) to doubt both tests. As to the fuel dilution, both results, although different, were out of specs so the tests ended up serving their ultimate purpose. But when the labs were questioned both just said that 'we use different equipment and techniques therefore we might have different results'. I was nearly a blanket statement, both statements were nearly identical, which at least that was a consistant result. heh

I know that oil testing is an important element. I'm just sharing my PERSONAL experiences. Since few people take the time or money to run two independent tests I thought I'd share what happened to me when I did. Kinda caused me to lose faith in any results I see. So, if you are running maintenance centered on oil samples I wouldn't run two, it will just piss you off and drive you crazy. Just my 2 cents...

 

[jdtractor]

Good to hear u bought your tractor! I will tell u this also mine pauses a little when shifting to reverse as u mentioned. about the same time frame as yours, I dont clutch when shifting except when in tight or close work. u will notice if u push the clutch and catch yourself doing it in time and let it out fast as shifting it will jerk in gear hard and quick. The clutch is designed for changeing gears and slow close work. Im not trying to say u dont knoiw what u are doing ,please dont take it that way, Im just trying to advise u.I learned this from talking to dealers and from watching my dad ,he ran heavy equipment all his life and owned several dozers big, and small. Most of his were cats a couple of deeres They were anything from the old hand clutch to the power shift models etc..... When he first started to work this tractor we are talking about he for some reaso more the once pushed the clutch in etc.... and partial let it out while shifting ,the reults were as i said Hard shifting (jerk quickly and hard.) This clutch controls the fluid drive in trans. etc.......As far as the bushings on your blade etc...mine are worn also not bad but not tight either. U will find that the steering clutches seldom need adjusting they self adjust to a certain extent. There is a plug under each saddle bag to adjust brakes . I have yet to adjust either on mine in the time frame ive owned it. When steering dont pull extremely hard on the steering clutches as this can cause need for adjustment then. Im telling u this Info based on the Manuals I have on this tractor and after talking to dealer servic techs etc...... I hope what Ive mentioned does u some good ,I kinda learned and figuered out also read about different issues as I went. Like I stated earlier every machine has its own bells and whistles. I hope your tractor does all u expect and more ,IMO u got a good machine ,Quality and dependable. I will only own DEERE. Good Luck to YOU. jdtractor.

 

[rusty0007]

Jd, Thanks again. Also, thanks for letting me know about the powershift. When I tested it I did it two ways. The main way was to just pull back or push forward the direction lever. It worked flawlessly, except for the pause I spoke of. I imagine that is functioning as designed actually. But, never running one before, i just didn't know.The second was clutching, which jerked like you described. Didn't seem natural for the machine
The extent of experience on a dozer is limited to a Kamatsu 31 w/ powershift. Although you didn't have to, I always mashed the de-fueler before shifting. Tapped it long enough to drop the RPMS a bit is all. The 450E doesn't have a de-fueler and I would think most of the time one would just use the throttle instead of the tiny pedal. I guess close in work the petal would be the way to go, but most of the time I'd think just run it up and leave it. Let me know your thoughts on this. Anyway, not using a de-fueler, I guess the shift would be exposed to engine RPMs. On a tractor with shuttle, thats a no-no. It will fry a clutch fast. But, this isn't a tractor shuttle. I assume JD has engineered around causing damage under those conditions. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems its designed just to pull the lever back when you need to back up then push it forward when you need to go forward. Regardless of engine RPM's and such. True or false? De-fueling with the throttle lever doesn't make sense and it doesn't have a de-fueler and using the clutch would be pretty agressive, most likely causing more damage than its saving. Anyway, thats my thought process on that. Oh, btw, I DON'T know what I'm doing on this thing! hehe. You are not offending me! As Clint Eastwood one said, 'A man's got to know his limitations'! On this subject, I'm limited. Thanks again!

 

[kevin37b]

That will make you a good tractor , just go slow and easy . That cab has no ROPS or FOPS SO DO NOT tackle standing trees with dead limbs . It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things , but it only takes one mistake .

 

[rusty0007]

Kevin, I was wondering about that. This cab is built though! Plate steel and huge mounts. The mounts are 1/2 inch steel. I don't know how it would fair in a roll over, I know one thing, I don't want to find out. But, its no flimsy cab, its a tank. To offer perspective, the dozer weighs in right at 20k. I'd say that cab added quite a bit. I think off the line it weighed 15,500 ish. Dunno if that counted the blade though. But, the general consensus is that a 450E weighs 16k or there abouts. Scale ticket on this one was right at 20K.

The owner said he did exactly what you are warning me about. A huge limb crashed down on the roof. I guess it hit right behind the AC unit. I looked up there and there is just a little scuff. Of course, my idea of a big limb and his might be two different things. The jury is out on the cab for me. It sort of restricts your visibility but it does offer quite a bit of protection you normally wouldn't have. After I'm done pushing tops I might replace the glass in it. Its missing a few panes, one being the right front windshield. lol. I tell ya, I bet when its 107 outside I'll be getting that AC running. lol

But, no, I was curious about this cab and if it officially offered ROP. I bet it doesn't. I will heed your advice. I plan on being very careful. Matter of fact, I doubt I'll push any standing trees over, period. Too many things can go wrong. I'm out. Thanks for the advice sir!

 

[Bob Rooks]

Not sure why you used two different labs, that's like wearing two watches. I operate a 12 mW diesel-electric plant and in part rely on oil sampling for preventive maintenance.
Anyway, it sounds like you got a pretty good machine, that one sprocket and chain pic looked pretty good. Congratulations.

 

[rusty0007]

Not sure why you used two different labs, that's like wearing two watches. I operate a 12 mW diesel-electric plant and in part rely on oil sampling for preventive maintenance.
Anyway, it sounds like you got a pretty good machine, that one sprocket and chain pic looked pretty good. Congratulations.

Bob, thanks so much for the reply! I totally agree. Under normal circumstances it would be silly to use two labs, or wear two watches for that matter, lol. In this case Chrysler insisted on running their own sample using Polarus, which was one of the two. My attorney recommended that I run my own too. Thus, two samples. All were collected in front of a Dodge/Cummins engineer. It was a mess. Since the fuel rail/injection system tested perfectly they couldn't figure out how this was happening. They eventually suggested that I was tampering, adding fuel to the oil just to lemon law the truck. Of course, they were proven wrong. But, because of the accusation two tests were run independently. This kept them honest, I guess. They paid for one and I paid for one. But, the results were very conflicting.

But sure, we used to run monthly oil samples on our diesel powered generators in the Navy. Of course, only one, so who knows if we would have got different results if we ran two. Probably. I will say this, Blackstone gave what I would think to be the most accurate results. At least their report reflected what I believe conditions would be with fuel dilution.