john deere 410C backhoe

[mudmaster211]

Im looking for a wiring diagram for john deere 410c backhoe unless you guys can help,
when the backhoe is cold it starts up no problems, if you shut it off hot the starter just clicks and sound
like a dead battery, when cools down it starts up again, any thoughts
Thanks Dave

I should have mentioned when its hot and will not start I go to the starter and jump between the battery
cable and solenoid starter wire and it always starts just not from the key, Thanks Dave

 

[BukitCase]

Could be an internal break in the starter motor windings - seen it on several different types of coils for ignition, PTO solenoids, etc - what happens is the single strand winding (in this case, inside the starter motor) gets a hairline fracture from vibration, etc - when the motor's coil is cold, it contracts and the two broken halves come together, and it works - when it warms up it expands, the two broken halves of wire separate, and no current will flow.

Let it cool and it "heals" itself, repeat til insanity sets in...

The click you hear is likely the solenoid, so most likely all your external electrics are working but no "spin-up" on the starter motor.

One way to check for this - connect an ohm meter between ground and the connection that goes from solenoid directly into the body of the starter - you should get a resistance, typically just a few ohms - then warm up the starter with a heat gun (hair dryer could work, but it'll be slower) - if my scenario is what's going on, your "few ohms" will change to "open".

You can also do this test by running the engine til it's warm, but you can't have the meter hooked up while you're starting or it could damage the meter, and you'd need to be fairly quick with the test once you shut down or the starter motor might "heal" itself before you can test it... Steve

 

[aircommuter]

You might take the solenoid off and see if the plunger is sticking inside the sleeve it slides into. I have that problem with many different starters over the years, some makers were putting in a plastic sleeve that expanded with heat gripping the plunger. You can isolate the flow of current with a meter, or just take it apart.

 

[junkjunkie]

That style of starter, if I recall correctly, has the solenoid integral to the starter housing. Sounds like either the solenoid coil is starting to fail and the increased resistance from the heat is putting it over the edge, or some internal wear is keeping the bendix from engaging (again, assuming I'm envisioning the correct starter). Best I remember, not a terrible starter to rebuild. Bushings, brushes, and a new solenoid coil is a lot less than a new starter.

Might be worth having the starter tested at the local Napa or other store, just to get a good measure of the cold amp draw and see how healthy the starter is.

 

[mudmaster211]

I should have mentioned when its hot and will not start I go to the starter and jump between the battery
cable and solenoid starter wire and it always starts just not from the key, Thanks Dave

 

[junkjunkie]

Do you mean the battery terminal at the starter and the smaller solenoid terminal at the starter? If that's the case, I would check the condition of the wire and the terminal at the solenoid. I had a caterpillar machine that had similar symptoms (except for the hot/cold... it would just randomly give me fits) the wires had corroded in the crimp termination of the little 12 or 14 ga wire. I stripped back 1/4" or so and crimped on a new ring terminal and all was good. Had another one on a wood chipper that it would lose spark when it got hot; ended up putting a new spade terminal on the ignition coil positive wire.

If the wire or termination is in bad shape (corrosion, oxidation, etc) the resistance is increased and only gets worse with heat, so you may not be delivering enough voltage to the solenoid to draw it in fully when that connection is hot. Could be as easy as cleaning the connection between the wire terminal and the starter post.

I hope I understood your comment correctly.

-Dan