International Cub Cadet 782 Problem

[PTS21]

Hey everyone. Hopefully I stumbled into the right forum. I have an IH Cub Cadet 782 that I inherited when I purchased my home last year. This is my first tractor so I really don't know the first thing about them.

I tried desperate to start it today and I couldn't. It would get to the point where it would appear to start and then die right away.

After a process of elimination, I found out that only one of my cylinders is firing up. The left cylinder won't fire up while the right one does. I purchased new spark plugs first but that didn't do the trick. What's strange is that if I remove the spark plug completely from the left side, the engine fires up and starts running, but obviously with not enough power. If I put the plug back in, it doesn't run at all.

Anyone ever experience anything like this? Any idea what might be wrong? My neighbor thinks it could be a timing issue but we couldn't figure out how to test that.

Final question: is this a tractor worth fixing and keeping?

Thanks in advance for any help and/or direction.

 

[Fordlords]

Remove the left cylinder head and verify that the piston is moving. The KT17 Kohler twin in those tractors is notorious for breaking it's under lubricated connecting rods, it will still barely run on the one good cylinder. That engine IMHO is not worth repairing, either replace the engine with a used Kohler KT17 Series II, (Full pressure lube) or with a new Honda or Briggs engine or sell the tractor for what you can get for it.

-Fordlords-

 

[xmitterengineer]

Too bad you couldn't just stick a screwdriver in the plug hole to check for motion.
I guess the plug hole is located too far sideways for that test to work.

One other thing you might try is a compression test on both cylinders.


Could be a stuck valve from sitting?

I hate to think of broken rods.

And it not running with the dead cylinders plug installed tells me that the rod may not be broken.
If the rod were broken what difference would installing the plug make?
If you pull the plug wire on the dead cylinder does that make a difference?
I'm thinking that pulling the dead cylinders compression is lugging the good one down.
Or maybe the dead cylinder has a stuck intake valve which upsets the mixture on the good cylinder when the bad cylinder is sealed by the spark plug.
I am assuming this engine has a single carb?

Does the dead cylinder have spark?

I should have asked this earlier.
Does it have a "death rattle" If so walk away. New engine time.

It is hard for me to imagine the timing being bad in one cylinder only.


Good luck Sir.

Rickey.

 

[Fordlords]

And it not running with the dead cylinders plug installed tells me that the rod may not be broken.
If the rod were broken what difference would installing the plug make?

Rickey.

It uses a single carb, and even though the rod is broken the valves still actuate, and some fuel vapor enters the dead cylinder, and the plug attempts to ignite it, making a tiny load on the dead cylinder.

The broken rods are VERY common on KT17 Series I engines, we commonly refer to them as KT 8 1/2's when they run on one

It can be something else, but the heads are easy to remove on this engine (it's a flathead) and verify the condition of it.

-Fordlords-

 

[xmitterengineer]

"The broken rods are VERY common on KT17 Series I engines, we commonly refer to them as KT 8 1/2's when they run on one "

All I can say is ouch!



Rickey.

 

[Fordlords]

Here is an excerpt taken from Weekend Freedom Machines in regards to the Kohler KT17QS twin used in the John Deere 317, which is the same engine original to the Cub Cadet 682 and 782 models. (Excerpt not copyrighted):

"The 317 was John Deere’s first attempt at introducing a twin-cylinder engine into the 300 series tractor. A horizontally opposed Kohler KT17QS engine producing 17 horsepower was mated to a 300 series frame, resulting in the model 317. Offered as standard equipment on the 317 were headlights & taillights, ammeter, dual-spool hydraulics and individual rear wheel brakes.

It is no secret that the 317 has had its share of engine problems. Many of the model 317 tractors suffered catastrophic engine failure as a result of poor lubrication to the connecting rod journals of the crankshaft. The engine utilized a "Pressure spray" lubrication system, which operated at approximately 5 PSI and did not provide pressurized oil to the connecting rod journals. Instead, the connecting rod journals were lubricated with oil sprayed down from the camshaft. This resulted in inadequate lubrication, particularly if the tractor was operated on a side-hill incline. Kohler did not offer an immediate solution to this problem, and as an interim solution John Deere engineered a retrofit kit that would allow an Onan p218G to be installed into the 317 chassis.

Eventually Kohler did rectify the problematic KT17 engine by redesigning the engine with a full pressure lubrication system. Known as the KT17 Series II, the engine operated at a significantly higher oil pressure of 25-50 PSI. Kohler also cross-drilled the crankshaft, which allowed oil to be supplied under pressure to the connecting rod journals. The result was a much more durable engine with significantly longer life. A KT17 Series II engine can be identified by a specification (Spec.) number of 24300 or higher. Well into its last year of production, 1982, the 317 came equipped with a Kohler KT17 Series II engine as standard equipment from the factory. Unfortunately the reputation of the 317 and the original KT17 engine was well established by this point."

One irony to this story is just when the KT17's started becoming problematic with the 682 and 782 in 1981, International Harvester sold the Cub Cadet division to Cub Cadet Corporation (MTD) to let them handle the situation. Some Cub 682's and 782's received KT17 SII's under warranty. Many 682's or 782's were not used on slopes, thus there are still some Series I engines out there.

-Fordlords-

 

[xmitterengineer]

Oh well another myth evaporated.

(I thought Kohlers were infallible)


Well maybe some of them still are.





Rickey.