Cub Cadet / Kohler -> not so good

[TENet]

I am posting here to maybe help out anyone that might be thinking about any CC product with a Kohler engine. I bought a 2500 series Cub with a Kohler 20HP twin. This was a premium product, not a Home Depot homeowner special. It's always had problems and quirks, but at least it ran. Until today, with 135 hours since new, it's had a major engine failure. An exhaust valve seat fell out, jammed the valve open. The piston is damaged, along with the head, valve, push rod. Add in gaskets, smalls, and labor, transport, etc... and you're talking about a big bill. Plus, no mower for some time.

Take this for what it's worth. I've never been happy with the Kohler product, for several reasons. Today, I am particularly unhappy with it. It's a waste of raw materials, and it's the reason smart folks no longer buy USA. Spend your money where you will, but for me, I would never touch another Kohler product. A $ 1500 engine should last more than 135 hours, and if it doesn't then there should be a warranty to back it up. Should be.

Here's a pic of the head:

 

[greenmule]

Well,its hard to find good stuff in the way of lawnmowers unless you spend 6-7 grand and even than?

I f it has the kohler courage engine,you might have intended to buy premium but they lied to you,many,many complants with the courage motor.

I didn't buy the new cub when I bought one this spring cause they are same company that makes the new troy bilt junk.

I did my home work [I thought] and with my price range was 3 grand give or take,needed at least 50 inch cut,bought a snapper LT200 which was supposed to be a good un too,can't buy in box stores,etc,well it is now back at dealers with a poping/back firing problem,with just 10 hours on it,22 hp b/s intek extended life motor.

So,going to mow my yard this week with my 15 year old sears 25 hp kohler command mower,which still runs fine!!??

 

[TENet]

This is (was) a Kohler Command, CH20. Something has happened to manufacturing, it seems that everything these days is disposable. This was a $4000 lawn mower, which I bought as a leftover for $ 3392. Seemed like a good deal, but since MTD has taken over it's just more material for the landfill.

I don't have the answer, the Briggs Vangaurd seems like a nice product, but no one uses them due to cost. It's all about the short term dollar.

 

[TENet]

Oh, and by the way!!! When the high end Cub Cadet died prematurely, I ended up cutting the lawn with an old Toro push mower that I've owned and used for 22 years. I don't know how old it is, since I bought it used even then for $ 25. Cast aluminum deck, Tecumseh engine, absolutely trouble free.

 

[greenmule]

Yep,that command has a good rep,but that old sears has one and head gasket on it went out at about 60 hours,but got it fixed and it now has over 600 hours,so...

We are in same boat as many I bet[not that that helps].

 

[LBrown59]

You just happened to be un lucky and got a bad one.
This is and exception and certainly not the rule.

I am posting here to maybe help out anyone that might be thinking about any CC product with a Kohler engine. I bought a 2500 series Cub with a Kohler 20HP twin. This was a premium product, not a Home Depot homeowner special. It's always had problems and quirks, but at least it ran. Until today, with 135 hours since new, it's had a major engine failure. An exhaust valve seat fell out, jammed the valve open. The piston is damaged, along with the head, valve, push rod. Add in gaskets, smalls, and labor, transport, etc... and you're talking about a big bill. Plus, no mower for some time.

Take this for what it's worth. I've never been happy with the Kohler product, for several reasons. Today, I am particularly unhappy with it. It's a waste of raw materials, and it's the reason smart folks no longer buy USA. Spend your money where you will, but for me, I would never touch another Kohler product. A $ 1500 engine should last more than 135 hours, and if it doesn't then
*there should be a warranty to back it up. Should be.

Here's a pic of the head:

*What do you mean there was no warranty?

 

[rcbe]

"If it has the kohler courage engine,you might have intended to buy premium but they lied to you,many,many complants with the courage motor."

Here we go again. I've been lurking these tractor boards for around 4 yrs now and just haven't seen many courage complaints/problems. to speak of.
Yes, Kohler did have some commands that were problems (leaking head gaskets) Briggs has its hands full with some of the intek series... some Kawasakis are picky/picky/picky when it comes to clean gas.

Personal dislike of a particular brand/model is one thing.. but to bash out of hand is another. Yep, the courage series is a price point design - won't give you a kazillion hrs of life - and yet may reveal some particullar design weaknress(es). But so far, seems to have held it's ground performance/quality wise.

If there are facts to the otherwise, please share.

 

[TENet]

It's not the Kohler Courage, it's the Kohler Command. As far as brand bashing, well, this is a cheaply made product. It was expensive to buy. During disassembly two bolts broke off in the casting, all four were over-torqued during assembly. The carb mixture is not adjustable. It can only be run at one speed. It uses alot of fuel. It backfires everytime it's shut off. The valves are intermittently noisy. It came from the factory with the engine speed mis-adjusted (cub cadet's fault?). It has always run hot. It lasted 135 hours, and now it's dead. Those are all facts. Maybe I expected to much.

I'm only trying to let the community know my experience so you don't get burned. too.

 

[scoutcub]

tenet -

I have to agree with LBrown, it appears you got a lemon. The Kohler command is a proven engine that's been around for awhile with a good rep. I've owned them for several years/wseveral hundreds of hours and always been happy with them. I've had many more problems with the briggs vanguards I owned.

I'm assuming you're out of the warranty period, or bought it used??
I guess I would be upset if I had all the problems you had and then it lasted for only 135 hours. I'd say you probably wrote this thread shortly after the incident...
You're certainly entitled to your opinions and grudges but warning people off (or bashing) a whole line of engines because of 1 faulty one is not reasonable advice.
I'm sorry for your bad experience and wish you better luck in the future!

 

[Gator6x4]

Tulsa Engine Warehouse sells Honda engine kits for some Cub Cadets to switch from a Kohler engine to the Honda Engine. Give them a call at 1-800-501-8061 and see if they have a Honda Replacement engine for your Cub. A twenty horse power Honda will cost approximately $1,200.00.