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  1. #21
    Veteran Member JTKub's Avatar
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    Cub Cadet Z-Force 44

    Default Re: Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

    Yeah, I emailed shell requesting a product data sheet for the supposed 'CC Drive System Plus' (Shell TTF-SB #53058). A gent wrote back stating he had a paper copy of the data sheet right in front of him, he would fax it to me if I wished... I'll see If I can get a copy..

    G/luck
    Joel

  2. #22
    Veteran Member JTKub's Avatar
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    Cub Cadet Z-Force 44

    Default Re: Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

    Shell got back to me with a hard copy of their product data sheet for TTF-SB. They seem like really good people to deal with. I got the info from Richard.Moore@Shell.com I posted it as best I could. Here goes... Direct from Shell:

    "Code 53058 Shell TTF-SB

    Shell TTF-SB is a specialized oil formulated specifically for use in lawn and garden tractors utilizing one fluid for transmissions, differentials, and hydraulics.

    Product Application

    Certain lawn and garden type tractors are designed to use a common fluid to lubricate the transmission, differential, and hydraulic system. This fluid must possess specific antifrictional characteristics to satisfy the friction requirements of hydrostatic transmissions, differentials, clutches, and wet brakes. The lubricant must also provide lubricity and wear protection of the gear sets and hydraulic system components. Shell TTF-SB is designed to satisfy the lubrication requirements for transmissions, differentials, and hydraulics of a wide variety of lawn and garden tractor equipment.

    Product Description And Features

    Shell TTF-SB is formulated with a blend of highly refined mineral oil and synthetic base fluid components and a specially designed additive package. The product possesses excellent oxidation stability, rust and corrosion inhibition, and antiwear / extreme pressure properties to protect critical components in the hydraulics, differentials, and gear sets. The product contains special lubricity / friction modifiers to satisfy certain hydrostatic transmissions and wet brake requirements. Due to the unique additive system and antifrictional properties, Shell TTF-SB does not meet the requirements of John Deere JDM J20C and D, and Caterpillar TO-4 specifications and should not be used in these applications.

    Benefits

    In service, Shell TTF-SB provides:

    Excellent shift quality in hydrostatic transmissions
    Outstanding hydraulic and gear wear protection
    Excellent wet brake and clutch noise suppression
    Resistance to rust and oxidation
    Compatibility with seal materials used in transmission any hydraulic systems

    Product Recommendations and Applications

    Shell TTF-SB is approved for use in hydrostatic transmissions, differentials, and hydraulics of Hydrogear Corporation lawn and garden tractor equipment

    Product Maintenance

    Shell TTF-SB is designed to provide complete protection of lawn and garden tractor hydrostatic transmissions, differentials, and hydraulics. For optimum component service life, follow fluid drain schedules listed in the equipment ownerís manual.

    Typical Characteristics

    Shell TTF-SB
    Code No. 53058
    Appearance = clear pale
    Gavity, API= 28.4 test method= D 1298
    Flash, COC, degF= 435 test method = D 92
    Pour Point, degF= -15 test method = D 97
    Viscosity
    cSt @ 40degC= 102 test method = D 445
    cSt @ 100degC 13.5 test method = D 445
    Viscosity Index= 132 test method = D 2270
    Sulf Ash, wt%= 1.2 test method = D 874

    For infomation on the safe handling and use of this product, refer it the Material Safety Data Sheet. For more information and availability, call 1+800-782-7852."



  3. #23
    Banned
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    jd4100, Cub Cadet 3204 & Cub 125

    Default Re: Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

    Nice Job JTKub in supplying the info !!

    It still looks like a proprietary product [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

    Making progress however

    Ducati

  4. #24
    New Member
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    Jun 2005
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    St. Andrews, MB
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    2005 CC GT2544

    Default Re: Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

    That is some great info JTKub!!!!

    Now did this person say if Shell sells this oil retail or only OEM cutomers?

    We at least know there is someting special about this oil...but that doesn't make it any cheaper...

  5. #25
    Silver Member
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    Sep 2004
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    230
    Location
    CT
    Tractor
    JD2520/Kubota KX008/ Argo Bigfoot 6x6

    Default Re: Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

    I'm not sure if it's available in your area, but I've used Amalie Alltrac 245 in my Cub 7234 and in my kubota ZD21 hydrostatic with no problems. Our local Kubota dealer has it in writing from Kubota that it's approved to substitute for Kub UDT and Super UDT fluids. Check out Amalie Alltrac 245 on the web, they a long list of manufacturers specs that this fluid meets. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

  6. #26
    Veteran Member JTKub's Avatar
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    Cub Cadet Z-Force 44

    Default Re: Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

    Thanks fellas [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. We are not much closer to finding an exact aftermarket match, but atleast we know what it is & what the specs are. Shell and CC did a fine job keeping this particular Ďblendí as proprietary as possible. Obviously because of their particular interests, neither party will suggest any substitutes, even though many exist. Itís not the money factor of the CC Drive System Plus that bothers me, itís the fact that I want to know what else can be used should I need or want to. I am no lube expert, but Iíve been around many types of oils, and their applications in my line of work. Much of the wording in the Shell TTF-SB product data sheet is fluff, common to all lubes of this type. Looking around, there are lots of oils that come close to, or exceed the TTF-SB spec numbers. Shell Rotella T synthetic blends, many of the Shell industrial hydraulic oils in the ISO viscosity grade 100, and many Mobil 40 and 50wt variants to name a few. They are out their guys!

    G/luck
    Joel

  7. #27
    Member
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    May 2005
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    37
    Location
    Troup, Tx
    Tractor
    CC2544

    Default Re: Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

    Like most of the posters, I have searched six ways from sunday to try and find a viable answer. My research keeps coming back to the same two oils. Mobil 1 15w50 synthetic and Castrol Syntec 5w50. I personally will be using Syntec 5w50. Either one is about $18.00/gal at Wal-mart. Here is the last link I looked at. Check it out. http://www.ferrisindustries.com/t_quick.php Scroll down to the bottom of the page to the Zero Turn Riders for the listing of Hydrogear Pumps and the oils they use. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] 1OD

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Default Re: Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

    You are incorrect about the Magnusson-Moss Act.

    The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is the federal law that governs consumer product warranties. Passed by Congress in 1975, the Act requires manufacturers and sellers of consumer products to provide consumers with detailed information about warranty coverage. In addition, it affects both the rights of consumers and the obligations of warrantors under written warranties.

    It doesn't say anywhere that if you choose to use something else that the manufacturer has to provide it "free" to you.

    The drive system fluid that Cub recommends comes directly from Hydro Gear. They require it's use for warranty purposes. The drive system fluid is specially formulated for the drive system. As hydro-gear states "if any other fluid type is used and a failure occurs it will not be covered under the factory warranty"

    This is not Cub Cadet's decision.


    Again, the The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is the federal law that governs consumer product warranties. Meaning the manufacturer has to abide by its written warranty whether its full or limited.



  9. #29
    Veteran Member JTKub's Avatar
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    Cub Cadet Z-Force 44

    Default Re: Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

    Lazy1, CC would have to prove that the a/m lubricant was the actual cause of the failure. That's an expensive proposition unless it's unquestionably obvious (you used cooking oil, etc.. in the trans). Do your research, use a quailty, similarly spec'd lube, or pay a few more bucks for OEM and you will have no worries!

    "The drive system fluid that Cub recommends comes directly from Hydro Gear."

    Where did you come up with that? HG makes hydro drive systems, they dont blend oils. The "CC" lube is contracted out thru Shell/Equilon.

    G/luck
    Joel

  10. #30
    New Member
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    St. Andrews, MB
    Tractor
    2005 CC GT2544

    Default Re: Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

    You are correct this all has to do with warranty...and the fact we don't want to adversly affect our expensive transmissions and have them lasting many many years but don't want to be financially gouged.

    But no....I am not wrong....

    Like I said earlier if they do not have a FTC waiver and they still insist on not covering the warranty if you do not use the recommended oil (their oil), as they do not specify the oil (viscosity, API grade, etc.)for comparable oils, they are obligated to provide it to you free of charge as a remedy.

    That is why oils have standard grades which was created and standardized many years ago.

    All Cub Cadet needs to do is provide more info....

    "Tie-In Sales" Provisions
    Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

    In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.

    While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.

    While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.

    Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.


    For the warranty to be nullified with aftermarrket parts, it must be clearly spelled out explicitly in the warranty text. To prevent manufactures from utilizing blanket denials such as stating any modifications void warranty, the Federal Trade Commission (the agency in charge of enforcing the Magnuson-Moss Law) takes a very dim view of such warranty postings. The Act also prohibits manufacturers from voiding your warranty for not using specified brand name products for service or repairs. This is called tie-in coverage. The manufacturers cannot make warranty coverageís contingent upon the use of a specific product as long as the substituted product meets or exceeds the published manufacturers published requirements. For the manufacturer to flatly deny warranty coverage the manufacturer must prove that you have done something to cause the problem. It is not up to you the consumer, to prove that you have not.

    Here is a quote from Amsoil's web page (if you didn't know is an aftermarket oil distributer)
    "Nearly 30 years ago, AMSOIL synthetics represented a vision of the future and technology ahead of their time. Since then, every major engine oil manufacturer has introduced synthetic oils of their own. To be sure, many original equipment manufacturers would like you to believe you can only use their products. However, it ís a violation of the consumer protections set forth in the Magnuson-Moss Act, unless they íre willing to provide you those products free of charge"




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