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  1. #11
    Elite Member RalphVa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    4,522
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA, USA
    Tractor
    JD 2025R, previously Gravely 5650 & JD 4010 & JD 1025R

    Default Re: Fuel filter/heater

    I think you're probably wasting your money. The Fleetguard model, in particular, is NOT going to keep the filter warm with all that glass area around it to lose heat to. Not clear how the Stanadyne one works. Fuel flow is so low, you're just not going to keep things warm by warming the incoming fuel.

    The ONLY time I ever had fuel filter waxing was on my old 1973 Benz starting in -22F weather. Started instantly, as I glowed it a long period and had a heater in the lower radiator hose. Two or 3 miles down the road, it died. Let it sit a minute or so and restarted. Another 2 or 3 miles, it died again. Restarted after about another minute and then no problems.

    All Benz main fuel filters are mounted on the side of the engine block. Engine block heat will eventually warm them enough to keep the wax in the fuel from gelling on the filter. (The little prefilters are NOT on the block though and possibly could block flow.)

    Cheapest insurance is to add 1/3 to 1/2 kerosene or an antigel additive. Doesn't take much additive to keep fuel from gelling, only about 0.0015 fraction.

    Ralph

  2. #12
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    1,771
    Location
    Kansas
    Tractor
    Kubota L3000DT

    Default Re: Fuel filter/heater

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Charlie:

    Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.....please explain your 2 replies, I am curious in the least.

    1. If the fuel is below the cloud point, it will gell in the fuel line, it's happened on my Western Star more than once and the addition of PS cures that problem and...

    2. The has to be more fittings with the addition of a fuel heater, that is, unless it's an immaculate installation [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] )</font>

    Fuel has to be below its pour point to solidify in a fuel line. When fuel is below cloud point but above pour point, the fuel filter stops the wax crystals. The wax crystals will quickly plug the fuel filter. This is called the CFPP, which I think stands for 'cold filter plug point' or somthing like that. You probably had ice plug the fuel line on your Western Star...it happened to me with KW's and Freightliners, too. With gelled fuel, the filter is the first place to look. With ice, a low place in a fuel line.

    The fuel heater is integral to the filter on both models. It is not a separate item.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2
    Location
    A. Valley, Nova Scotia
    Tractor
    TC35

    Default Re: Fuel filter/heater

    If quality fuel is used and maintained a deisel pro is certainly not needed and may be considered a waste of money.These filtering system were design for engines with high fuel consumption such as long haul semi's.They were designed to extended filter change intervals to reduce costs.Under certain situations a high mileage truck may change it's filter 15 or 20 times a year, many times when it is not actually needed.The idea of the clear lense is to indicate when the filter actually needs to be changed so as to not over service.The heating of fuel helps to obtain a better burn which will increase fuel mileage and reduce emissions.Not something most tractor operators are comcerned with.Can't imagine how long you would have to run smaller series tractor for till filter indicated time to change.Years for sure

  4. #14
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    1,771
    Location
    Kansas
    Tractor
    Kubota L3000DT

    Default Re: Fuel filter/heater

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( cp1969, What did you mean when you said the fuel couldn't gel in the line leading to the filter? Where you more referring to the fact that the heater would work ? I know nothing about diesel fuel or the engines for the most part, but isn't it possible that the fuel could gel before it gets to the filter? Is it just a case of the fuel still flows but is too thick for the injectors? Thanks in advance for the info. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
    Is there anywhere that I can look to learn more about diesel fuel and the benefits of using additives? It gets really cold in the winter around here and I want to do my tractor justice as well as anything that will make it last longer. Daryle. )</font>

    I think I answered part of this in the previous post. Once you get fuel to the injection pump, your worries are over...it will get injected. Getting it to the pump is the problem gelling or ice causes.

    There are numerous good places to read about additives. The Chevron website is a good place to start. Of course, you can go to different additives websites, too, and they will tell you all about the problems you face and how their additives solves this or that problem. Also, many people relate stories of their success using X,Y,or Z additive. You may have started to realize that I am not a big fan of additives but to each his own. It may be worth noting that few if any manufacturers of diesel engines recommend using additives on a regular basis and some issue warnings to stay away from some emulsifier additives.

    My kubota has no provision for draining water out of the fuel system and the filter is hanging out in the open air where it will get virtually no benefit from engine heat. Those are the two reasons I'm looking at the Fleetguard and Stanadyne units. That they probably filter better is icing on the cake. I would think if I were operating my tractor in really cold weather (say zero F or below--so far, about +10 F is as cold as I've used it) it would be a no-brainer for me. One or the other would be on there.

  5. #15
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    1,771
    Location
    Kansas
    Tractor
    Kubota L3000DT

    Default Re: Fuel filter/heater

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( The Fleetguard model, in particular, is NOT going to keep the filter warm with all that glass area around it to lose heat to. Not clear how the Stanadyne one works. )</font>

    It doesn't have to stay warm after the filter, only AT the filter and I'm going to guess that the heat loss of the clear container has been accounted for in the design. edit: The more I think about it, the heat loss from the clear bowl should be LESS that a metal one. Metal is a better conductor of heat.

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Fuel flow is so low, you're just not going to keep things warm by warming the incoming fuel. )</font> That's all any fuel heating system does--get warm fuel to the filter(s). If you can do that, the problem is solved. The Benz had a pretty good system--the secondary filter was tucked tight up against the engine to get heat and the primary was not really fine enough to cause a problem with wax crystals.

    It appears most people consider this a waste and I respect their opinions. If kubota had simply put a petcock on the bottom of the fuel filter, I would probably never even considered this. But they didn't, AND they hung it out there in free air, maximizing its potential to gel. This winter, I've been lucky--only had to plow snow three times and the coldest temp I had to do it in was about +10F. I can look at this thing sort of like the OBDII scanner I just bought. I sincerely hope that I NEVER get the opportunity to use it, at least on my own stuff. (By 'use it' regarding the tractor, I mean have to use it in sub-zero temps.)

  6. #16
    Super Member 5030's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    6,000
    Location
    Michigan, S.E. Monroe County
    Tractor
    Kubota M9000 Hyd Kubota M105 shuttle

    Default Re: Fuel filter/heater

    Charlie:

    My kubota has a provision to drain the water as well as a spin on pre-filter. Actually, there is a ring in the fuel bowl that floats as the water rises so you can visually look at it and see just how much water is in the bowl.

    What was meant by "more fittings" was probably the fact that the filter/heater would be added in front of the factory filter causing more fittings and the possibility of more leaks.

    As far as I know, only trucks that regularly run in the northern extremes run fuel heaters. It's an option that isn't applied in the U.S. very often. My fuel gell problem isn't in a low point in the fuel line, actually it is in the fuel line at the crossover and because of EPA regulations, crossover lines are no longer on the bottom of the fuel tanks, but rather on the top, using a siphon action and check valves to transfer fuel. The problem area is where the line crosses over the transmission and the air flow across the transmission cools the line to a point that causes gelling in the check valve. The addition of PS cures that problem and that problem only occurs below 20 degrees ambient on No.2 diesel.


  7. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    25
    Location
    Ontonagon county, Upper Penninsula of Michigan
    Tractor
    Kubota B7100 old style

    Default Re: Fuel filter/heater

    I have used my 1983 B7100 to plow snow in Northern Michigan for a good number of years. The temperatures here sometimes hit 20 to 30 below zero. During the winter months I switch to #1 diesel &amp; add a cetane boaster. I am still waiting for my first fuel gelling problem. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  8. #18
    Veteran Member
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    Nov 2005
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    2,089
    Location
    Casey County, Kentucky

    Default Re: Fuel filter/heater

    I would only use kerosene in an emergency. Back when diesel had more lubricity, it would not be so detrimental but today, kero could wipe out an injection pump especially an older one.

    Much better to pretreat and not only minimize or eliminate gelling but treat for algae, moisture, etc.

  9. #19
    Super Member 5030's Avatar
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    Feb 2003
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    6,000
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    Michigan, S.E. Monroe County
    Tractor
    Kubota M9000 Hyd Kubota M105 shuttle

    Default Re: Fuel filter/heater

    Mushrock:

    It's so cold where you live that fire freezes. Been there sledding years ago. Good resturant in town. Best chocolate pie I ever had. Keep warm.

  10. #20
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    849
    Location
    northfield connecticut
    Tractor
    gradall g3r excavator, kawasaki mule 2500,ford 8000,and a 1936 caterpillar road grader

    Default Re: Fuel filter/heater

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Fuel flow is so low, you're just not going to keep things warm by warming the incoming fuel )</font>

    i know the engine doesnt neccesarily use much fuel, but alot of fuel does circulate in most engines, the kenworth T800 and T300 trucks we have at work all warm the fuel, i believe some of them do so by flowing it thru the ECM and cooling the ECM that way and warming the fuel at the same time, but that may have been just some of the earlier ones. the fuel tank tho will infact become warm after running all day

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