FarmTrac Troubles

[swines]

...no one from the government has made a move to right this wrong.

What EXACTLY is "the government" supposed to do? If Escorts did something illegal, and you can prove it - take it to the state attorney general, or local federal prosecuting attorney. Or, file a legal action in court yourself. How about YOU do something to help yourself instead of just complaining about the situation and wanting somebody else to take care of it for you?

Why do people think "the government" should take care of them whenever life gets inconvenient?

Please, if you have some type of idea as to what "the government" should do - how about naming it exactly? You want a bail out? You want a new retro-active law passed? You want them prosecuted for....?

 

[redneckford]

you probably work for the government with a reply like that!!!!How about reading my public profile and I will read yours. OH!!! wait you chose not to fill one out. Full disclosure before you harass. If stealing and lieng are not crimes what is. You can use that excuse all you want but if "Less than Zero" is not a crime, Inflating someones floorplan without their knowledge is not a crime, If not paying for contractual obligations is not a crime(warranty work and payments) if not paying your taxes is not a crime then what do we need the court system far. There are laws on the books that cover everyone of these areas, it is just some people choose to not enforce these laws on some company's were as they go after "little people with a vengeance" because they know they can not afford to fight back!!!!-------LOUD!!!!---AND---PROUD!!!! I don't have enough money to hire a Lawyer only to have them sell out to the highest bidder!!!! Just Facts!!!!!

 

[longtrman]

What EXACTLY is "the government" supposed to do? If Escorts did something illegal, and you can prove it - take it to the state attorney general, or local federal prosecuting attorney. Or, file a legal action in court yourself. How about YOU do something to help yourself instead of just complaining about the situation and wanting somebody else to take care of it for you?

Why do people think "the government" should take care of them whenever life gets inconvenient?

Please, if you have some type of idea as to what "the government" should do - how about naming it exactly? You want a bail out? You want a new retro-active law passed? You want them prosecuted for....?

Farmtrac,NA is history---they can no longer be prosecuted by any legal agency. But there are more tractor companies that could do the same thing to the American public. The idea is to have a process in place to protect the other customers and dealers and hopefully prevent a reocurrance of this mess. We don't expect to ever profit from the prosecution of either Farmtrac,NA or Escorts, LTD. It's strange, if you read on the net FARMTRAc,NA owned Farmtrac, Poland. The companies that lost money can't even sue for Farmtrac, PL even though Farmtrac,PL was an asset of Farmtrac,NA. If the United States Justice dept can determine that Farmtrac,NA was an agent of Escorts, LTD rather than a subsidiary then possibly they could be charged in the World Trade organization. Escorts chose all the top brass at Farmtrac. All the top brass were Indians. To me that is enough to make Farmtrac an agent rather than a subsidiary. If a money trail can be followed taking us directly to Escorts (a lot of money appears to be missing) then that also would add credence to the theory of agency as opposed to subsidiary. To me the idea that a foreign company can wash it's hands of the sins of it's subsidiary is ludicrus. But as things stand now a foreign company can create a subsidiary, do unethical possibly illegal things through the subsidiary, bancrupt the subsidiary and walk away. It is called free trade. No one wants to stand in the way of free trade. As far as myself "Free trade be damned"--"Fair trade is the only way to go." These are things that need to be looked at in the justice department and followed by legislation in congress.
Suppose somone purchased General Motors now that they are down. Suppose this new company forced excessive amounts of inventory on the car dealers saying "They will never come due" and suppose this company told the car customers that they would get a check every 6 months that more than offset the amount of the interest. And then suppose this company bankrupted the subsidiary which would also bankrupt the dealers and cheat the customers out of the checks they were promised to induce them to buy a new car. Would you not want some way for the U.S. to recover? Are we always to be cheated by other nations and not stand up for ourselves.
At last I heard the Farmtrac matter was sent to the justice dept. for investigation. Several congress people from several states are following this investigation. The problem now is Macs. Freddiemac, Indymac and Fanniemae will take all of congresses attention for a good while to come!
Now that a foreign company has successfully perpurtrated this crime on America I fully expect every con-artist in the world will want to try it at least once.

 

[NewToy]

Farmtrac,NA is history---they can no longer be prosecuted by any legal agency. But there are more tractor companies that could do the same thing to the American public. The idea is to have a process in place to protect the other customers and dealers and hopefully prevent a reocurrance of this mess. We don't expect to ever profit from the prosecution of either Farmtrac,NA or Escorts, LTD. It's strange, if you read on the net FARMTRAc,NA owned Farmtrac, Poland. The companies that lost money can't even sue for Farmtrac, PL even though Farmtrac,PL was an asset of Farmtrac,NA. If the United States Justice dept can determine that Farmtrac,NA was an agent of Escorts, LTD rather than a subsidiary then possibly they could be charged in the World Trade organization. Escorts chose all the top brass at Farmtrac. All the top brass were Indians. To me that is enough to make Farmtrac an agent rather than a subsidiary. If a money trail can be followed taking us directly to Escorts (a lot of money appears to be missing) then that also would add credence to the theory of agency as opposed to subsidiary. To me the idea that a foreign company can wash it's hands of the sins of it's subsidiary is ludicrus. But as things stand now a foreign company can create a subsidiary, do unethical possibly illegal things through the subsidiary, bancrupt the subsidiary and walk away. It is called free trade. No one wants to stand in the way of free trade. As far as myself "Free trade be damned"--"Fair trade is the only way to go." These are things that need to be looked at in the justice department and followed by legislation in congress.
Suppose somone purchased General Motors now that they are down. Suppose this new company forced excessive amounts of inventory on the car dealers saying "They will never come due" and suppose this company told the car customers that they would get a check every 6 months that more than offset the amount of the interest. And then suppose this company bankrupted the subsidiary which would also bankrupt the dealers and cheat the customers out of the checks they were promised to induce them to buy a new car. Would you not want some way for the U.S. to recover? Are we always to be cheated by other nations and not stand up for ourselves.
At last I heard the Farmtrac matter was sent to the justice dept. for investigation. Several congress people from several states are following this investigation. The problem now is Macs. Freddiemac, Indymac and Fanniemae will take all of congresses attention for a good while to come!
Now that a foreign company has successfully perpurtrated this crime on America I fully expect every con-artist in the world will want to try it at least once.

If GM was telling me all that stuff I'd probably go buy that Vette I've been wanting. As far as the Mac situation, it's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better. Also, the ethnicity of the "top brass" is a non issue, there are crooks of all flavors. There seems to be a disproportionate number of them in the S&L business. Haven't seen a whole lot of Indian folks in the bank lately.

John

 

[blueliner]

Hello all !

Escorts chose all the top brass at Farmtrac. All the top brass were Indians. To me that is enough to make Farmtrac an agent rather than a subsidiary.

I'm not sure if they *chose* CFO Alton Cobb.
He was with Long for more than 20 years before Escorts arrived, so that means he was "grandfathered" in.

If a money trail can be followed taking us directly to Escorts (a lot of money appears to be missing) then that also would add credence to the theory of agency as opposed to subsidiary... As things stand now a foreign company can create a subsidiary, do unethical possibly illegal things through the subsidiary, bancrupt the subsidiary and walk away. It is called free trade.

Speaking of "show me the money" trail ... I've listened to some da**ning accusations from an East Coast Farmtrac retailer who believes he has a pretty good idea where the money -- and the modalities needed to get it there.

I'm confident that the Farmtrac situation will inevitably make it to court and the retailer will be called to support his claim "I'd take the oath and tell that to a jury."

Count on Yours Truly to be attentively sitting in court that day with pen and pad in hand, grinding off pages of notes.

...the ethnicity of the "top brass" is a non issue...

No, but their status as citizen of another country makes a *hu-hu-huuuuge* difference in how much teeth (or in this case, lack thereof) the law has."

The Enron debacle was in the U.S. ... and the criminal justice system had more exponentially more leverage on home soil.

--b

 

[longtrman]

If GM was telling me all that stuff I'd probably go buy that Vette I've been wanting. As far as the Mac situation, it's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better. Also, the ethnicity of the "top brass" is a non issue, there are crooks of all flavors. There seems to be a disproportionate number of them in the S&L business. Haven't seen a whole lot of Indian folks in the bank lately.

John

Ethnicity really doesn't have a part to play. My point was Escorts had a huge control over FARMTRAC,NA. I don't think that FARMTRAc would have gone to India to recruit management "talent" on their own. It shows me that Escorts called the shots and should have to be responsible for loosing the game. Is that not correct?

 

[case1570]

What EXACTLY is "the government" supposed to do? If Escorts did something illegal, and you can prove it - take it to the state attorney general, or local federal prosecuting attorney. Or, file a legal action in court yourself. How about YOU do something to help yourself instead of just complaining about the situation and wanting somebody else to take care of it for you?

Why do people think "the government" should take care of them whenever life gets inconvenient?

Please, if you have some type of idea as to what "the government" should do - how about naming it exactly? You want a bail out? You want a new retro-active law passed? You want them prosecuted for....?

We have done what you have suggested. Brought the info. to several agencies. Our representative in our area did not even repley. If you were as smart as you keep telling yourself you are you would know this takes time and continuious pressure. That is what I was trying to do. I don't honestly think our government will do anything, when I know that nothing has been done I will take final action into my own hands(all legal) I will stop trying to play nice with the people who knew what was going on. Until then we need to play the game. What I can't tolerate is a very loud uninformed finger pointer. When you know the facts or are up to your necks in it, then make comments like you did. How would you like it if your tractor dealer told you that he was not going to do what he promised, as far as price, interest rate and warranty. You would be the first one complaining to the world. That is not what the Farmtrac dealers did. They dug into their own pockets and covered warranties and honered the comitments they made. We treated our customers they way we should treat our neighbors. Do you not want that kind of respect.
We are not asking for bailouts. That is just moving the debt onto people like yourself.
Do it ourselves? Who is trying to take care of their customers by setting up a parts source. Who is answering tech. questions for people all over the country. Who is trying to cover warranties themselves. Who is doing this to keep customers going. The answer is the Dealers. NOT our government. Not your elected officials. NOT YOU! It would be easier to walk away and spend my time on more profitable areas in my business but I will continue to due what is right.

I don't take government programs. I don't have any government loans. Had no help from federal programs. I did it with the grace from God and hard, hard work. The one thing I ask and demand from my government is to enforce the law. Our elected officials are elected to represent us.
Case

 

[SESS]

We have done what you have suggested. Brought the info. to several agencies. Our representative in our area did not even repley. If you were as smart as you keep telling yourself you are you would know this takes time and continuious pressure. That is what I was trying to do. I don't honestly think our government will do anything, when I know that nothing has been done I will take final action into my own hands(all legal) I will stop trying to play nice with the people who knew what was going on. Until then we need to play the game. What I can't tolerate is a very loud uninformed finger pointer. When you know the facts or are up to your necks in it, then make comments like you did. How would you like it if your tractor dealer told you that he was not going to do what he promised, as far as price, interest rate and warranty. You would be the first one complaining to the world. That is not what the Farmtrac dealers did. They dug into their own pockets and covered warranties and honered the comitments they made. We treated our customers they way we should treat our neighbors. Do you not want that kind of respect.
We are not asking for bailouts. That is just moving the debt onto people like yourself.
Do it ourselves? Who is trying to take care of their customers by setting up a parts source. Who is answering tech. questions for people all over the country. Who is trying to cover warranties themselves. Who is doing this to keep customers going. The answer is the Dealers. NOT our government. Not your elected officials. NOT YOU! It would be easier to walk away and spend my time on more profitable areas in my business but I will continue to due what is right.

I don't take government programs. I don't have any government loans. Had no help from federal programs. I did it with the grace from God and hard, hard work. The one thing I ask and demand from my government is to enforce the law. Our elected officials are elected to represent us.
Case

COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF CASE1570!!

I am one of the folks that spent MANY, MANY hours and a whole lot of dollars calling, faxing, mailing, talking,talking and talking some more to our government agencies in hope of finding SOMEONE to listen to the issues plaguing the customers effected by the not even zero program. I talked to every house rep, senator, congress, commissioner, sheriff that I could get my hands on in the state of FL and everyone told me, sorry, can't help! But I did find help outside of state of FL that have initiated a congressional inquiry with the Federal Trade Commissioner. I had a 100 NO's before I got 2 YES's. It takes an enormous amount of time and patience, but it paid off. Will anything be resolved, it is way to early to tell. But it takes work from everyone to keep pounding the door of your elected officials. You will not get their attention with only one person calling, writing,emailing, faxing, etc. It takes LARGE #'s. So Mr. Swine-if you were a Farmtrac customer grossly effected by this mess-give me a call and I will gladly forward to you every name and phone # that I came up with on my own dollar to help people like you and then you can start working instead of complaining.
The dealers are not asking for a bailout, handout or a free ride. We are just looking for ways to help YOU the customer and have a business to pay our own bills at the end of a day. I wish that I could use all the tractors I have fixed this year for our customers with the parts I bought-but that is not why we fixed the tractors. ALL OF US DEALERS have worked for free this year because it was the right thing to do for our customers. The customers did not ask to be screwed by Farmtrac and neither did we dealers-BUT the dealers are the only ones here willing to help and help we have done!

 

[taxpayer]

I would rather focus on those agencys most likely to take action to sort this whole mess out, namely the FBI and the IRS.without access to farmtrac records,it is just theory as to what transpired to cause these events and by whom.I believe I have put together enough info in a logical sequense to arouse their interest.what they choose to do with it, I cannot control, but as least I will have tried,I wish we would not bicker and fingerpoint on this forum,after all we're all trying to accomplish the same thing,just in different ways and the amount of information,talent and determination brought to bear on the big boys through the use of these forums has been why we are still here and able to carry on the fight.the most valueable resource we have is US, lets keep US together.----taxpayer

 

[longtrman]

Thanks Case and SESS for your posts but please don't be hurt. The post of mine that started this was just meant to give heart to the people that have Farmtrac tractors and don't know where to get parts. Everybody please be glad for the dealers who are going to England on their own nickle in order to try to set up a parts supply line for you. They are very good and generous people and very talented managers. Something good should come out of it. The other posters have had their feelings hurt from this Farmtrac mess and with good reason. They have a right to know however that there are about 67 of 285 ex-Farmtrac dealers actively trying every avenue to help the past and future customers of their dealerships and past Farmtrac customers. Notice I did not say future Farmtrac customers because Farmtrac,NA is history. If someone buys the Tarboro property that was occupied by Farmtrac,NA it won't be Farmtrac. All the buyer will get will be physical assets. You don't have to worry that we are trying to restart Farmtrac--it will never happen. But we have to get parts and if possible service for the tractors. We have to try to sell the remaining blue tractors. Remember the blue tractors did not do anything to you. Tractors don't cheat you --however unscrupuluos companies do . But that company is gone--let's move on. Please do not try to punish the blue tractors. Please do not try to punish the dealers who are trying to help you. We have to do what we can for ouselves also. You think it is selfish for us to try to keep from losing a life time of work and our business property and probably our homes also--after all your tractor has lost half of it's value. Really think about it. We are possible going to lose everything we worked for for our lifetime and yet we still try to help you. And all you do is complain when I try to tell you have heart we are working on getting the parts flowing again. We would like to be able to report that Escorts has decided to be a good world citizen and live up to its responibilities as a manufacturer of a tractor---It ain't a gonna happen. They cheated you and they cheated the dealers much much more. You say why don't the dealers just declare bankruptcy and walk away form it all. The dealers all--including green and yellow, red, orange--had to sign a personal guarantee guaranteeing that if their companies didn't have the money to pay the floor plan company that they would--in other words they lose everything.
If someone does buy the former Farmtrac property don't try to punish them for what Farmtrac and Escorts did. If it is the Korean company they are only trying to help the people who purchased Korean tractors from Farmtrac. It won't be Farmtrac. If they purchase all assets then they may have blue tractors to sell as well as selling their new production. Don't punish the tractors--they are iron and don't feel a thing.
People keep saying that the dealers should have been upfront about it and told the tractor owners before things got bad. Honestly we heard about Farmtracs problems on the TractorByNet.com site. Think about the hourly paid workers at Tarboro--they went on working for five weeks without being told the money to pay their salaries won't be coming from India. If they worked in the plant for five weeks without knowing Farmtrac was bancrupt how is a dealer 200 to 1500 miles away supposed to know. Everybody please don't be hurt and try to calm down and work together for a good solution that benefits all. Thank you.