Should I herbicide before no-til??

[HCJtractor]

I am new to no tilling (recently restored a 3 row planter and got a Truax no til drill). I was planning to plant some soybeans and corn this spring, whereas in the past, we always planted fall blends. I checked out our plots and they are beautiful now. The spring rains have really brought out the clover. They are lush. But I assume the grasses and weeds are waiting to emerge.

My question is whether to apply Roundup before I plant. I could (and am tempted) to just plant as is, with no herbicide. There is no old residue and the clover in only 4 or 5 inches high. I hate to kill this clover. What would happen if I drilled corn and beans now without any chemicals?

I also wondered if maybe I should use something other than roundup. I read that Poast will kill grasses but not clover. I have never used any herbicide before.

I will post some pictures of the plots tomorrow.

 

[Fossil Farm]

Roundup (glyphosate) is a contact weed killer. It kills what is
actively growing, not weed or grass seeds. It will kill your clover
and any grasses currently growing. Typically, it is better to spray
your contact herbicide before planting in case field conditions change
after planting, and you cannot get back into the field to spray. If
your corn or soybeans would sprout and begin growning before getting
your spraying done, then you would also kill the corn or soybeans.
If you do use an herbicide, please follow label directions. I have had
a private pesticide license for over 20 years, and it is amazing that
many folks still think "a little is good, more is better."

Guess it just depends on what your goals are. A good stand of clover
will shade out many weeds and is a good food plot by itself. If there
is little corn or soybeans in the area, then their addition as another
food source would help. Good luck.

 

[smstonypoint]

Application of a post-emergent herbicide prior to no-till planting is often called "burndown" and kills weeds that have emerged prior to planting. If you don't have a significant weed problem, there should be no need for burndown prior to planting.

Steve

 

[RickB]

Application of a post-emergent herbicide prior to no-till planting is often called "burndown" and kills weeds that have emerged prior to planting. If you don't have a significant weed problem, there should be no need for burndown prior to planting.

Steve

Your terminology is goofy. Post-emergence and pre-emergence refer to the intended crop. Nearly all burndown is applied pre-emergence, or it would destroy the growing crop. Post-emergent burndown must be limited to herbicides that are ineffective on the target crop, usually by way of genetic engineering such as Roundup ready corn, soybeans or alfalfa.
If the OP has an actively growing crop of clover that is now 4-5 inches tall, it is a total waste of time & dollars to attempt interseeding just about anything into it without killing the clover with the proper burndown. The clover has a headstart, and will all but prevent the success of a planted crop if left to grow.

 

[smstonypoint]

Your terminology is goofy. Post-emergence and pre-emergence refer to the intended crop.

This terminology must differ across regions and/or crops. Here are the definitions from Monsanto (Monsanto Press Room - Glossary of Terms)

Pre-emergent herbicide A herbicide that controls weeds before they emerge from the ground.
Post-emergent herbicide A herbicide that controls weeds after they emerge from the ground.

Regarding the intended crop, I would speak of "pre-planting" and "post-planting" herbicide applications.


Steve

 

[Fossil Farm]

Nearly all burndown is applied pre-emergence, or it would destroy the growing crop. Post-emergent burndown must be limited to herbicides that are ineffective on the target crop, usually by way of genetic engineering such as Roundup ready corn, soybeans or alfalfa.

Post-emergent does not have to be for a genetically engineered crop. It has
been used for decades. If one is growing corn (a grass), a post-emergent
herbicide to only kill broadleafs can be used without affecting the corn.
If one is growing soybeans (basically a broadleaf), a post-emergent herbicide
to only kill grasses can be used without affecting the soybeans.

Post-emergent herbicides are used all the time in orchards, nurseries,
berry crops, etc. without problems. Best to read the label and follow it,
no matter what terminology you wish to call it.

 

[HCJtractor]

Your terminology is goofy. Post-emergence and pre-emergence refer to the intended crop. Nearly all burndown is applied pre-emergence, or it would destroy the growing crop. Post-emergent burndown must be limited to herbicides that are ineffective on the target crop, usually by way of genetic engineering such as Roundup ready corn, soybeans or alfalfa.
If the OP has an actively growing crop of clover that is now 4-5 inches tall, it is a total waste of time & dollars to attempt interseeding just about anything into it without killing the clover with the proper burndown. The clover has a headstart, and will all but prevent the success of a planted crop if left to grow.

That's the heart of the question I am asking. Will the existing clover and whatever else present, even though not very high, prevent the growth of corn or beans if not killed first? So do most agree that it needs to be killed first before drilling? Here are some pictures of the plots. So drilling through this stand of clover and grasses is a waste of time unless all is burned down?

Sorry the pix are rotated. They were correct on my computer. Can't figure out how to rotate them after I downloaded them to TBN.

 

[Smallplot]

Looks like this is some form of white clover. Clovers can be hard to kill with just Gly. If you use Gly 41% at 2 qt per acre (or Round Up) it will kill most of the weeds and some of the clover but the clover may start regrowing after a period of time. There is lots of info out there about using a reduced rate of Gly on clovers to control weeds following an author's advise by the name of Ed Spinoza, or something like that. I would caution against following this type of information because it goes against the recommended dose by the Mfg which can lead to very serious problems such as resistant weeds.

Beans and Corn do not like competition. anything growing is competition to corn or beans.

There is a method that involves applying non-selective herbicide in 10-12 inch wide strips and planting into the strips. The strips will slowly fill back in but the crop will be big enough by that time that competition would be a moot point. This is one possibility.

As far as drilling beans you will have to burndown the total area due to the row spacing of most drills (7.5 inches).

 

[Fossil Farm]

Will the existing clover and whatever else present, even though not very high, prevent the growth of corn or beans if not killed first? So do most agree that it needs to be killed first before drilling?

Yes, you should kill (spray) the existing vegetation first to give the corn
or beans a chance. Just remember, this is a food plot. You are not trying
to grow 300 bushel corn or 70 bushel beans. So if it doesn't look so good
in the middle of summer, being your first spring planting, just learn from it
and try again. If there are weeds or clover still growning, a mix of vegetation
works well for a food plot.

If you have not no-tilled before, the Truax drill is usually heavy enough, but
check your seed placement after a short distance to be sure the seed is
getting enough cover in a sod field like you have and is not sitting on
top of the ground. Have fun and enjoy !!

 

[HCJtractor]

Should I plant the beans and corn about 1" deep? I can't wait to try out my new Truax and the Allis Chalmers planter I restored this winter. We always planted in the Fall, but with the recent droughts, it was always hard to get enough moisture to have success in Oct and Nov. Hopefully by not plowing we can conserve moisture and also supplement Fall planting with some Spring crops.

With these two pieces of equipment and 20 or so plots to experiment with, what would you guys do?