Remote Hydraulics on Ford NAA

[timb]

Father-in-law has on his to-do list to build a log splitter. So far he's only been collecting the various bits and pieces for the splitter. He intended to run this off the hydraulics on his old Ford NAA, but hadn't gotten to the point of really figuring out how yet. I started looking into sources for plans and if anyone had any info on the best way to hook in the hydraulics. It didn't take too long before I found enough info to get the impression this isn't going to be as easy as we thought. There does not appear to be any good place or way to tap into the hydraulic system on an old Ford - unless you already have the optional remote valve and ports. While one of those can be retro-fitted - it sounds like they're very rare, expensive, and at this point non-repairable (no more parts).

Anyone tackle this? Is there a shade-tree solution for old tractors like this without factory remotes? FIL's a decent wrench (ex-millright), welder, and has a decent shop (but no machining tools).

Ideas?

(He had originally collected an electric-start 8hp gas engine intending to use that, but had since decided it sure would be a lot easier not to have to buy a pump, build a resevoir, etc., and just use the tractor.)

 

[Soundguy]

Even on the old 9/2/8 n's.. there was a farmer/shadetree mechanic way to tap pressure of fhte internat pto driven oil pump.. you have to chain the 3pt arms down, then get your pressure from a test port on the under side of the tractor... many used to get remot hyd's this way.. though is only 2.9 gpm, and 1500 to 1700 psi.. so is slow..

I'm guessing there is a similar way on the naa... and probably easier, as the hyd pump is externally mounted on the right lower side of the engine, with inlet and outlet lines out in the open to MeSs with. Alternately, you could take your I&T FO-19 manual into a local hyd.'s shop.. show them the section on the remote valve.. and see if they can cobble / retrofit something up, since at least the NAA had some forsight into adding a way to do it 'right'.

Soundguy

 

[timb]

Soundguy - I've seen the idea of locking the 3pt and using the test port - it applies to the NAA/Jubiliee as well. Struck me as, well, "not too cool" of a way to pull this off. I'm going to have to spend some time staring at the tractor itself and the diagrams and see if some light bulb goes on. A few years ago someone posted a comment on "Yesterday's Tractors" about a process that involved a "relatively simple drilling operation on the top cover and simple fabrication" that eliminated the need to block the 3pt and actually gave you an independent remote operation - but they never elaborated and their email is now defunct.

I knew the flow was low but I wasn't sure about the actual pressure the NAA ran at. We can always go up in cylinder size (at the expense of even slower operation) to get enough power. "FIL" has a couple of 3, 4, and 5 inch cylinders collected, including a welded 4x24 I thought would probably be a good first shot. It ought to be fast enough for him - he's retired! (and getting a little tired of the hand splitting he's been doing for 40 years.)

Where's "Zane" when you need him? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Timbo.....you will not be happy with the splitter since the NAA will not have enough flow and pressure to do that job. My Dad and I built several guillotine-type three-point splitters that would split ANYTHING, and we ended up going with the PRINCE slide-on PTO pump which was set up as a part of the splitter, connected with hoses, and had it's own tank on the splitter. You only have to buy that pump once and it pays you back each time the wedge comes down and enters a piece of wood. Take the guy to lunch and gently talk him out of using the NAA hydraulics. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[timb]

Dave,

How important is the flow rate for a splitter? Meaning some things need a lot of flow for speed in order to provide "impact force" - in other cases it's a matter of how much patience you have but the job still gets down. Never having used one (human splitting power only) I was not thinking that a hydraulic splitter worked the same way manual splitting did - i.e. by an impact fracture but more by the old "irresistable force" process. If we need a fast stroke to fracture the log - then for sure the NAA is out. Just seems that having to go "external" with a 2nd pump, resevoir, et al, escalates the project considerably.

The flip side is that I'm planning to buy a big CUT that will likely have more than hydraulic capacity - but he likes to be independent.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Tim, we used a 5" X 20" trunion-mounted bulldozer ram in our splitters. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifWe needed about 2000 PSI to really split some of the hard stuff. My guess is that the NAA is well under that kind of pressure. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Splitter blade speed is only important in that you don't want to grow TOO too old waiting for the blade to go down and then back up. One thing about it....as long as you select the correct cylinder stroke and diameter, you can ALWAYS buy a PTO pump later on if the NAA is too weak or too slow. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Soundguy]

The hyd's on the NAA are going to be similar to the 8n, as they use the same size cylinder / piston on the 3pt. That is about 2.9gpm and 1700 psi... The NAA had the option to replace the vane pump with a piston style pump. The pressure /flow is still about the same, but reliability goes up.

The NAA did have provisions way back in the day for a remote valve on the hyd. top cover. As Timb pointed out, that parts kit is no longer available from NH.. however, any -real- hyd's man should be able to fabricate a kit to fit. I mean.. everything on the tractor is already setup for the remote.. just needs the inards, etc. Alternately, you could tap the hyds right of the pressure side of the pump.. abb your own power beyond block, and go from there, without loosing the 3pt..

Try a local hyd's shop, take them the f0-19 manual and show them the original valving.

My local hyds' man is this grump old coot that can just about do anything... He complains alot.. but i have yet to see something he can't do. He commonly fabricates valves from blocks of steel or aluminum.. If it was built once, a good machinest can duplicate it.. no reason whay it has to be 'lost arcane knowledge from atlantis' or something like that..

As a mater of fact, I'm thinking of doing the same just to have it on my NAA.

Soundguy

 

[timb]

Looked over the NAA on Sunday, looks like the best solution for us to fabricate would be a tap off of the pressure side of the pump. The line runs back quite a way outside of the tranny so there appears to be an opportunity there. I will have to look at the I&T manual and see what it has to say.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

You will be under-powered, you will grow old waiting for the cylinder to move. You don't need the speed to shatter the wood - but you don't want to be able to knit a sweater between each split either - the splitting maul starts to look good again while waiting....

4" cylinder won't do it even on a newer 2000 lb tractor. At least, we have elm here, and we have big 2' diameter plus trees & our stove takes 27" long wood, and a little old 4" won't even dent those. Some folks start with kindling wood, and split it up smaller - I guess it would work for that. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now don't let this stop you, but do plan ahead for future modifications if your current path doesn't meet expectations. Those pto pumps are nice things...............

--->Paul

 

[herbertperform]

I run a log splitter off my 1954 NAA. I bought a Prince hydraulic pump that mounts on the tractor's PTO. Then I installed to fittings on my Ford's internal hydraulic tank (manual transmission area) and used that to supply the fluid. It would have been just as easy I suppose to by an external tank and mount it on the log splitter. My set up works very well.