Trouble starting my Ford 8?? (I can't figure out the exact model)

[bennevis]

I have a Ford with a 172 diesel engine. (The model number has been obliterated from battery acid). I just bought a new battery & the first few times I started her up, she fired right up! But, the last couple of times, the engine is sluggish & after a few tries, it fires up.
I noticed the solenoid was getting hot (like red hot & smoking). So I checked the connections to the solenoid (tightened them a bit) & it fired up. I was just checking, so I killed it right away & the starter was still turning. I pulled one of the cables off the battery & the starter stopped.
I haven't a clue what is wrong, I just ordered three manuals off of ebay (I bought the ones for an 841, I THINK that is what I have).
Any suggestions on the ignition issue? I'm pretty much on my own...

[strum456]

I would say that you are correct, it is an 841. However, it looks the the grill is off of an older 8x0 tractor. An 841 would have an "egg crate" grill. Since your tractor is diesel, it has to be 1958 or newer though.

As for your problem....something is causing a lot of resistance. Resinstance in an electrical circuit will cause heat to build. This could be casued by poor connections, undersized wiring, etc. I have never run into this personally, but I'd bet it is your solenoid. It is probalby malfunctioning, so it got really hot and now its contacts are welded together inside.

Also, make sure no one put on light gauge battery/starter wires like a car would use (common problem).

[bennevis]

Thanks very much! I will try to locate a solenoid & check the cables as well. (I really need to rewire the whole tractor)! I haven't had time to work on it since last fall, but it is running & Soundguy told me how to locate the engine number. (It also has the larger size back tires found on 801's).
Still a lot of kinks to work out...Learning as I go...

[strum456]

I thought your tires looked normal. Are they 13.6-28?

[bennevis]

Yes, you're right - they are the 13.6-28, in my initial attempts to discover the model, I checked to make sure they weren't 12.4-28 (which might have been on the 641).

I wouldn't have known to even check that, but that was another item Soundguy told me to check.

[mostly_gas]

Besides the solenoid, Wires or battery may be undersized. Check voltage drop at battery during cranking new fully charged battery should be near 10.5 volts. Undersize wires create excessive resistance.

[Soundguy]

yep.. solenoid got hot and welded.

get a new solenoid, check all terminals and wires and conenction to ground as well.. even at the starter where it mates to the block.

tranny dictates model number. it if is an 801, and 4 spd.. it's 841.. if a 5 speed if live pto.. 861.. if non live.. 851... if sos 871/881

soundguy

[bennevis]

Besides the solenoid, Wires or battery may be undersized. Check voltage drop at battery during cranking new fully charged battery should be near 10.5 volts. Undersize wires create excessive resistance.

I don't know how to test during cranking, but I did check the battery to make sure it had a full charge (it did).
I am not sure on the battery cables, I haven't received my manual for the tractor yet.

[bennevis]

yep.. solenoid got hot and welded.

get a new solenoid, check all terminals and wires and conenction to ground as well.. even at the starter where it mates to the block.

tranny dictates model number. it if is an 801, and 4 spd.. it's 841.. if a 5 speed if live pto.. 861.. if non live.. 851... if sos 871/881

soundguy

I went to the local New Holland dealer & they sold me the new solenoid. I asked about the battery cables, but he just said I would have to bring the old ones in.
I haven't had the chance to go back yet. I am 90% sure the problem was the connection to the solenoid. Haven't had time to change them out. I will follow up after I replace the old one.

[bennevis]

yep.. solenoid got hot and welded.

get a new solenoid, check all terminals and wires and conenction to ground as well.. even at the starter where it mates to the block.

tranny dictates model number. it if is an 801, and 4 spd.. it's 841.. if a 5 speed if live pto.. 861.. if non live.. 851... if sos 871/881

soundguy

Oh, on another note - my friend has a very similar tractor to mine, except his has a 5 speed transmission with a high & low range - 10 gears? His grandfather gave it to him, he doesn't really care anything about it. It smokes like crazy, but they have used it for shredding etc... I know he would sell it to me, any idea exactly what this tractor might be exactly? How much it might be worth?
Here's a photo.