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  1. #471
    Old Timer Soundguy's Avatar
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    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Ford 8N having trouble starting -- many troubleshooting steps take -- suggestions

    i typically do a minimum of 5, and generally will let them run till it stops climbing, paying attention to the first stroke.

    IE.. see what first stroke does.. then see what it does past that.

    I've found that 5 strokes usually yeilds max that it will make... while 1st stroke makes the most difference, IMHO, on how they start.

    the gasket is either holding or it ain't. if it's such a slow leak that it's still building 100+ psi on 1 puff. i can't see it being an issue.. so I guess that begs to ask what the OP saw onthe first stroke?

    I have seen some that have worn comp rings but non existant oil rings that will 'pump up' to a good #.. but be lowsy starters till oil startsgetting thrown sealing the rings.. i have an 850 project tractor that takes about 20 revs before it will start.. and it's a worn ring issue for sure.

  2. #472
    Gold Member
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    May 2012
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    Grand Rapids
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    2013 Kubota BX2370

    Default Re: Ford 8N having trouble starting -- many troubleshooting steps take -- suggestions

    I don't have hard numbers to go from but each cylinder had first pumps of more than 60 psi. I only turned the tractor over for 3 seconds per test and I did multiple tests per cylinder and did an average. On each test a cylinder would pump up and pump up again on the second revolution -- if that makes sense?

  3. #473
    Old Timer Soundguy's Avatar
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    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Ford 8N having trouble starting -- many troubleshooting steps take -- suggestions

    yes.. it's common for subsequent pumps to make a higher reading than initial pump. the better the engine, the higher the initial pump, and the closer the subsequent pumps would be.

    for example.. an engine that made 1st pump at 110 and subsequent pumps of 115 and 120 would indicate a very strong N engine.. perhaps recently rebuilt.

    on the other hand.. an engine that yeilded a 1st pump of 75, 2nd at 80 and 3rd and 90 and 4th at 95 and 5h+ at 98 wuld yeild an engine that's well worn.. and a bit under 'book spec'.. though probably still cuts grass fine. it's when you can't get dynamic pressure up to 90 that you get the hard starters..e tc.. for instance.. i've seen many machines that have some pressures in the 75-90 across the baord that otherwise run ok.. but don't have the oomph of a rebuild.. and start slower.. etc.

    typically you don't hear this as a miss.. even when you have 3 at 100 and 1 at 80.. if it bangs.. it's generally not a miss.

  4. #474
    Veteran Member sd455dan's Avatar
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    Rhino 554,Ford 3000, JD550G dozer Gilson MTD riding mowers

    Default Re: Ford 8N having trouble starting -- many troubleshooting steps take -- suggestions

    PorkchopsMmm did you open the throttle up before the compression test/ leaving the throttle closed can lead to lower and slower build of compression readings, I also like to go for 5 complete cylinder compression strokes, and if readings are confused go for the leak down tester, your #s look acceptable. I would probably buy a whole nother set of plugs and , borrow an inductive timing light, it's the kind with a red battery + connection a black ground and an inductive pick up (you just clip it around any plug wire, if it works like mine it only flashes if it detects the current flow when the spark jumps the gap and does not flash if the plug does not fire I tape the (trigger down ) that way you free both hands up...I would try and use it on the (missing when it's running)... also as Soundguy said a can of starting fluid. the new plugs. should reveal something

  5. #475
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    2013 Kubota BX2370

    Default Re: Ford 8N having trouble starting -- many troubleshooting steps take -- suggestions

    sd455dan -- I don't believe the throttle was open all the way. Sorry, I didn't know to do that. These are my second second set of new plugs -- first ones were Champion H12's and then when I ordered a parts kit I got a set of the Autolite 437's.

    That inductive light sounds awesome. My plan for tonight, if it is not monsooning, is to very the spark at all 4 spark plugs (spark plugs removed from the engine but still connected to the spark plug wire) and then verify the timing via the distributor, a ruler and the manual. I will let you all know how it checks out.

  6. #476
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    Default Re: Ford 8N having trouble starting -- many troubleshooting steps take -- suggestions

    sd455dan -- I don't believe the throttle was open all the way. Sorry, I didn't know to do that. These are my second second set of new plugs -- first ones were Champion H12's and then when I ordered a parts kit I got a set of the Autolite 437's.

    That inductive light sounds awesome. My plan for tonight, if it is not monsooning, is to very the spark at all 4 spark plugs (spark plugs removed from the engine but still connected to the spark plug wire) and then verify the timing via the distributor, a ruler and the manual. I will let you all know how it checks out.

  7. #477
    Veteran Member sd455dan's Avatar
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    Rhino 554,Ford 3000, JD550G dozer Gilson MTD riding mowers

    Default Re: Ford 8N having trouble starting -- many troubleshooting steps take -- suggestions

    i know it's been said before but that (spark should be blue white)-and it should be able to jump at least a 1/4 inch, another thing if that spark is inconsistent , something you posted a ways back about the points (when they weren't electrically closing and the mechanic ran a point file thru it one swipe, and they started conducting electricity when closed.
    If there wasn't a piece of lint or paper stuck on the point contact surface, and it was of a chemical nature Who Knows what goo insulated the contact surface i would have a hard time having much confidence in them working long term, as they spark conducting electricity that point contact surface can change to a non conducting contact (also as Soundguy said - junk tisco ) and since you can't monitor the dwell reading ( the time the points are closed out of each make break cycle) due to the coil being contained in the distributor, if you don't get consistant spark I would check them with an ohm meter or easier-Soundguys method Simpler- Again with a test light one side to bat power+ the other to the distributor primary connection and with the key off spin the starter- that light should flash(consistantly ) -NO missed flashes... if it is inconsistent or dim I would spray them with electrical cleaner (the points), and point file- them, then check gap..re verify nice brite blue white spark that sparks each and every time.. (know u also installed another new coil)

    The reason I suggested New plugs again is it is possible to foul a plug in such a way that it appears fine but won't fire under compression , Also did that fuel tank have any varnish smell to it ( I know you drained the tank and re filled with fresh fuel) but varnish can have a way of hanging on in the tank and tainting new fuel, then glazing the plugs after running a while. i would not have posted all this , but you are now at a no start condition again , so its's re-verify the compression, , carburation and ignition/timing
    The inductive pick up timing light can help nail down a non firing cylinder, i use it on an oil burning wagoneer and it always finds the fouled plug so I can have an 8 cylinder instead of 6 or 7 cylinder Jeep Remember 3 wire design +- and inductive pick up..once again good luck

  8. #478
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    Default Re: Ford 8N having trouble starting -- many troubleshooting steps take -- suggestions

    If I was betting I would say it had carb problems and distributor problems.

  9. #479
    Old Timer Soundguy's Avatar
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    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Ford 8N having trouble starting -- many troubleshooting steps take -- suggestions

    with missing gaskets.. we know it has carb problems.. most carb problems don't cause a miss.. can make a stumble or gurgle though.

    ignition and compression problems cause miss.. it.. something you can isolate to a cyl jug.. or a electrical connection..

  10. #480
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    Default Re: Ford 8N having trouble starting -- many troubleshooting steps take -- suggestions

    I wasn't able to get to pulling off the distributor last night and I doubt I will for the next few days. We are having torrential rains mixed with snow and ice and the meadow where the tractor is located just flooded with a foot of water. I hope it will clear up by next week.

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