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  1. #11
    Veteran Member Carl_NH's Avatar
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    Default Re: need advice on temporary water line

    Here's a site where you can get 160 PSI 500-600' lengths. Polyethylene Well Pipe

    Also you can reuse this or the 200 PSI in your well and supply to your house later on.

    Or here is 1'x300 at HD - they can order it probably if not in stock. 1 in. x 300 ft. 100 PSI Polyethylene Pipe-AJ101030 at The Home Depot
    Kubota B21TLB, Ferris IS2000, Cub Cadet 1811

  2. #12
    Elite Member CurlyDave's Avatar
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    Default Re: need advice on temporary water line

    The real issue is going to be the elevation change.

    Each foot of rise produces 0.43 psi of static head. If you have a 50' rise, you will have 21.5 psi required to just keep water in the pipe, any flow will require more. Typically, you need ~30 psi above the static pressure to get good flow.

    Minimum pressure at the bottom of the hill would be ~50 psi. This tells me two things:

    1. You are going to need a 2-stage centrifugal pump to get the water up to the garden. Each stage general produces about 30 psi.

    2. The pressure at the bottom of the hill is going to be 50-60 psi.

    Initial reaction is that 100 psi pipe should be OK, but wait. Plastic pipe gets much weaker as temperature increases. It is generally rated at 72 degrees F. If the temperature gets to ~ 100 degrees F, the pipe will be much weaker than the rating.

    Personally I would go with 160 to 200 psi rated pipe and either a two stage pump, or two 1 stage pumps in series.

    This all depends on the accuracy of your 50 foot assumed elevation change. If it is really 100 ft, you may need more pumps and better pipe ...
    40 Acres on a hill - fantastic view. JD 110 TLB, 4-n-1, 12" bucket, 18" bucket, Addington thumb, rock bucket (doubles as root grapple)

    Not only do we not understand the universe, if someone explained it to us, we would not know what he was talking about.

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  3. #13
    Elite Member BobRip's Avatar
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    Default Re: need advice on temporary water line

    Quote Originally Posted by CurlyDave View Post
    The real issue is going to be the elevation change.

    Each foot of rise produces 0.43 psi of static head. If you have a 50' rise, you will have 21.5 psi required to just keep water in the pipe, any flow will require more. Typically, you need ~30 psi above the static pressure to get good flow.

    Minimum pressure at the bottom of the hill would be ~50 psi. This tells me two things:

    1. You are going to need a 2-stage centrifugal pump to get the water up to the garden. Each stage general produces about 30 psi.

    2. The pressure at the bottom of the hill is going to be 50-60 psi.

    Initial reaction is that 100 psi pipe should be OK, but wait. Plastic pipe gets much weaker as temperature increases. It is generally rated at 72 degrees F. If the temperature gets to ~ 100 degrees F, the pipe will be much weaker than the rating.

    Personally I would go with 160 to 200 psi rated pipe and either a two stage pump, or two 1 stage pumps in series.

    This all depends on the accuracy of your 50 foot assumed elevation change. If it is really 100 ft, you may need more pumps and better pipe ...
    Dave, I think you have a good point about the temperature. If the black pipe is in the sun it is going to get hot. If water is flowing that will keep it cool, but with no flow it could get well over 100 F. Putting it in a shallow covered trench would help a lot.
    Bob Rip
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  4. #14
    Elite Member
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    Default Re: need advice on temporary water line

    I bought the heavier gauge one inch plastic pipe at Lowes this morning, the lighter weight stuff just felt too light.
    And if I ever do bury the pipe, have to believe will have less problems with the better pipe dealing with the local rocks.

    Tomorrow I put all five rolls together, with connectors and adapters to take both ends down to 3/4. Certain urgency for this as our last needed rain disappeared and our local clay is turning into concrete in the garden.

    It should be very interesting to see what happens when the hydrant "down below" is turned on. It's a full 3/4 hydrant,
    but the psi is unknown, but it's a farm well. I have no way to add pumps to this pipe; it either works or it doesn't...hmmmm.
    Will report back and try to take some pics, hoping my fifty foot rise number is off ,but I don't think so.
    2012 Kubota L5740HSTC3 with FEL and Long grapple, 1986 Case IH 255, Land Pride PD10 PHD, Land Pride RCR60 & RCF2084 mowers, Land Pride 4' box blade and rear rake, Fred Cain subsoiler, County Line potato plow, County Line 1 bottom plow, 1986 Gravely 8199G with tow behind DR rototiller, 50" deck+40" Gravely wing mower, Gravely snowblower, Swisher 44 rough cut mower,Ariens snowblower, Echo 450-18 & 600-24, Echo PPT280, 2006 JD LX280, , 1968 Cub Cadet 125, Husky-Speeco 35 ton splitter

  5. #15
    Veteran Member Carl_NH's Avatar
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    Default Re: need advice on temporary water line

    Dave,

    On the pipe - 160 PSI pipe is stiff, and tomorrow AM put the pipe rolls in the sun, then get some decent sized rocks 12" size and put them on the hill every 50'.

    By the time you have all the rocks in place unroll the pipe it should be more understanding warmed up a bit - walk it down the hill and place the rocks on the pipe, then connect them at the joints - a propane torch makes it much easier to insert the fittings - just heat the pipe a bit and shove on then clamp.

    Just curious though, you say a "farm well" unknown PSI, and 3/4" hydrant? Is this your water source or are you tapping into a another supply - city or well and of a well whose well?

    When you say hydrant, this says to me its a upright pipe and a lever with a 3/4" hose connection either from town water or a tap off a well somewhere. If so the PSI will be at least 30 and maybe 60 PSI.

    Well, good luck tomorrow and let us know how you make out.

    Carl
    Kubota B21TLB, Ferris IS2000, Cub Cadet 1811

  6. #16
    Elite Member CurlyDave's Avatar
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    Default Re: need advice on temporary water line

    Quote Originally Posted by daugen View Post
    ...It should be very interesting to see what happens when the hydrant "down below" is turned on. It's a full 3/4 hydrant, but the psi is unknown, but it's a farm well. I have no way to add pumps to this pipe; it either works or it doesn't...hmmmm.

    Will report back and try to take some pics, hoping my fifty foot rise number is off ,but I don't think so.
    Somewhere in the depths of my garage/shop is a pressure gauge with a female hose fitting on the inlet port. It cost less than $10 at a plumbing shop several years ago.

    This is invaluable in troubleshooting water pressure issues, and helped me greatly in setting up my well and pressure tank.
    40 Acres on a hill - fantastic view. JD 110 TLB, 4-n-1, 12" bucket, 18" bucket, Addington thumb, rock bucket (doubles as root grapple)

    Not only do we not understand the universe, if someone explained it to us, we would not know what he was talking about.

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  7. #17
    Elite Member
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    Default Re: need advice on temporary water line

    thanks guys. It's a traditional ground hydrant(hey, I was a fireman, I know what the others look like...)
    with the big lever on top and is connected to a single farm well for several buildings. Just like I had when growing up, so one is always sensitive
    to shared water supplies. This is out in the country, no city water, so yes, I'm hoping the well cutoff is 60psi. the more I start off with, hoping the more
    I end up with after all the losses climbing the hill.

    good idea on the rocks. Going to be sunny today which is a good start. I will put something heavy down on each connector as suggested.
    My wife's first question was "how are you going to get the curl out of these?"
    I figured it was better uncurling as I go, with pipe on bottom ,vs. undoing the whole thing like we do with garden hoses. This stuff isn't going to bend that easily so
    I'm also concerned over kinking. Better to warm it up.

    I'm sure there's one fitting I need that I don't have so I don't know if the show will go on today, but at least I'll take pics.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: need advice on temporary water line

    I would let it warm up in the sun, the park one end under a car wire and start unrolling.

    Aaron Z
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  9. #19
    Elite Member
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    Default Re: need advice on temporary water line

    well I waited too long and the one length of one inch garden hose was sold out at my local Ace, so back to Lowes I go.
    Need enough to get across a macadam driveway, hydrant on one side, garden way up a hill on the other. So for once something
    small would be better, usually the bigger ID hose comes only in longer lengths and is super expensive. At least it's usually made in the USA.

    the only pressure gauge I have is on my powerwasher, which I find very handy. Yes, it will be interesting to see net PSI at the top of the hill.
    Frankly I'd be pleased with something... I've spent the extra money to go one inch, so let's see if that really helps or not.

    will report back tonight.

    And Aaron good tip on the hold down. Rear tire of my Gravely ought to be heavy enough. Am afraid the Suburban would wreck the hose...

  10. #20
    Super Member Gary Fowler's Avatar
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    Default Re: need advice on temporary water line

    If you are indeed 100 feet of rise, then you will have about 44 pounds of head pressure to overcome. Well pumps sometimes set the low pressure switch to turn on at 35 and off at 50 or so. You may need to adjust the low pressure switch to start at a higher pressure otherwise it might not have the pressure to push the water up the hill and yet not lower the pressure enough to kick on the pump The high pressure might need to be upped some also. I have city water at my place and it is 100 PSI at the meter so all my buildings have to have a pressure reducer regulator to 50 psi just prior to entering the buildings, but my outside hose bibs are on the 100 PSI so they have max flow.
    Depending on your pump capacity and water tank max setting you may be able to up the pressures a bit. The pump tank should have a pressure gauge on it just for the purpose of setting the pressure switch (at least every well pump I have ever seen had one.
    2010 LS P-7010C 20F/20R gear tractor & FEL, 2009 Kubota B 26 TLB, RTV 900 Kubota,17 foot Lund boat with 70HP motor, 2012-20 ft 12k GVW trailer, 2011- 52" Craftsman ZTR mower, 3 weed whackers, pressure washer, leaf blowers, 7 foot bush hog, 8 foot landscape rake , 8 foot 3 PH disc, 2 row cultivator, 350 amp CC AC/DC welding machine and all the tools needed to keep them all repaired and running.

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