B&S 20 hp Vanguard: Starter Issues

[LandscapeMan]

Hi,
I usually hang on the Construction board. But as my Ramrod Mini skid steer has a B&S engine, I thought you folks may have more experience.
History: When my starter died 2 years ago, I replaced the plastic gear and retaining ring ($8) and the retainer-brush ($17) on the starter.

The starter has always had the problem, that when you turn the key it will only spin the engine a few revolutions then disengage. Then you usually have to click the starter a few times in a row to keep the engine turning to start. Except for the very first time you start it in the morning when the engine is cold it will turn over as it should. So I don't know if it might be heat related.

So my first question: Is this normal for this engine? If I change out the whole starter is it likely to correct this issue?
I was hoping when I changed the plastic gear and retainer-brush 2 yrs ago that it would start in a more normal fashion. But there was no improvement.

Second question: B&S lists a new starter for $127.00 (Steel Ring Gear) $109.68 for Alum Ring Gear.

Manufactures supply lists a starter (Alum ring gear I believe)
for $79.99. I assume after market.

Does anyone have experience with after market starters?
( As my OEM starter has been a problem from the start)
Other sources for parts?

My inclination would be to deal with the JD dealer for parts, as they were a big help the first time around. But they are about 1.5 hr away round trip and it always seems I have to make more than 1 trip..

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Charlie

 

[DmansPadge]

Landscapeman... that is not normal. I would pull the starter and have it checked out. Any good starter/alternator/battery shop will check it out for free. I would imagine you have a problem with it. If you know of a good starter/alt shop, have them rebuild it... if not... I'd go new. I would also go with steel! Don't forget to check the easy things first. Such as battery connections, grounds, loose connections, etc. Sometimes problems are a lot less complicated then you think. I am an ASE certified Master mechanic and once I spent $1100 trying to fix a Lumina with a miss that ended up being a blown fuse to an injector bank! The fuse costs about 25 cents.

 

[btolle]

I was having a problem with a B&S engine on a riding lawn mower a couple of years ago. I had a guy working for me at the time who had worked at a B&S warranty repair shop for a couple of years and he said it was a common problem. He recommended that I use the nozzle on the water hose to wash the starter gear out every once in a while.

Apparently dust and dirt collect between the shaft and the gear and cause the gear to bind and not engage properly.

The way the starter is mounted you can't get to it without removing the top cover from the engine so I just took the nozzle and washed up under the cover where the starter was located. I tried it and it cleared up the problem.

Bill Tolle

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( spent $1100 trying to fix a Lumina with a miss that ended up being ended up blown fuse to an injector bank! The fuse costs about 25 cents )</font>

Ouch, I don't think I've had one quite that expensive /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif, but I'll bet most of us have had something similar happen that we'll never forget. I called a wrecker to tow my Chrysler station wagon once when it wouldn't start, and then three mechanics worked on it a day and a half before we learned that a $2 ballast resistor was all it needed. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[LandscapeMan]

dmanspadge,
Great idea on the Alternator shop, I had not thought of that.
Now all I have to do is find one..........

The "steel" refers to the ring gear on the engine. As far as I know the plastic gear is the only one available for the starter.
I presume so the plastic wears out instead of the ring gear.
Or there just cheap.

Good point on checking/fixing the EZ things first. I always tend to think of the exotic/complex things first.

I did find a aftermarket starter from Manufactures Supply for $52.50 as compared with $118 from B&S. But that is for the Alumn ring gear. I have not pulled the starter yet to see which one I need.

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[LandscapeMan]

Bill,
Great idea on the cleaning. I do operate in the dirt, so I am sure plenty of grime gets on the gear. I thinks my current one is toast. But I will try the cleaning routine in the future.
I will update after I wrestle this starter out and get a good look at it.

My brother took a look at it and feels the Batt cables are too small, so I will upgrade them also.

I have never had any problems with the starters on my Honda, Robin, or Yanmar engine equip. But then again the skidder probably operates in the most dirt.

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[SPIKER]

I've got a similar setup, but have had no problems in 2~3 yrs mowing heavy, but I clean it pretty often too. (never washed off the starter with th hose though!?) if you do make sure to spray some sort of WD-40 on it to get rid of water so the shaft don't rust. sounds like a easy fix if it is that... I also keep the cooling cover clean of debris when running it and clean it after/before each mowing. also clean the filter 2~3 times a season too as it catches a lot of stuff.

Markm

sorry that was susposed to be 2~3 years I fixed it now /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[LandscapeMan]

Mark,
23 years with no starter problems. I am jealous. Hopefully I can make this fix last. Pulling the starter out of my skidder is a real PITA. No room to work.

First I have to check if I have a Alumn or steel ring gear. To see which starter I have to order.

Any suggestions on after market sourses for starters?
Charlie

 

[JerryG]

Charlie,
<font color="blue"> Any suggestions on after market sourses for starters?
</font> We have had good luck with these people. They have had quick service and have been very knowledgeable about everything that we have needed. Tulsa Engine Warehouse

 

[LandscapeMan]

Thanks Jerry,
I gave them a look, nice site.
They have the B&S OEM starters, but no aftermarket listed for my model.
I don't know if anyone makes a aftermarket starter ( B&S OEM 691564 for steel ring gear $120.10 and the 499521 Alumn Ring gear would be $118.95).
I did find a starter from Manufactuers supply for $52.99 that said it would replace the 499521. But it also said it was for a 16 hp. Vanguard, not the 20hp that I have. I am trading emails with them to try to confirm what the correct story is on that. So I just want to make sure that I have checked all sources before shelling out the $118 instead of the $52.
Thanks,
Charlie