Ferguson TO-20,30 Hydraulics

[Lazy]

Hi
I could use some help understanding the hydraulic system on the Ferguson TO-30 tractor. We purchased a dealer shop manual and parts manual, but they don't help me much. If anyone has experience with the hydraulics and could help me it would be very much appreciated.

Charlie

 

[Soundguy]

Same hyds as on a 9n / 2n ford...

it's a scotch yoke piston pump.. intake is emersed in oil.. has a control valve hooked to your lift handle, which is actually a control fork that fits' over a 'T' shaped valve on the pump... pump sends fluid up thru a hyd standpipe in the front right side of the hyd section to the top cover which passes it to the cyl.. piston is free floating and pushes a dogbone which pushes a reciever on a rockshaft that spins in the top cover bores and moves the upper lift arms which are linked to the lower lift arms. system pressure is in the neighborhood of 1500-1700 psi, and 2.85 gpm.. made to pump 90w gl1 mineral oil.. though will work with lighter UTF oils if there aren't too many leaks. due to the geometry and weight of a ford N or fergy.. you can usually get about 800# on the rear lift before the front ends starts pointing skyward.. some front weight will let you get near 1000# on the lift, depending on how tight the system is, and what your relief valve condition is. I've seen people jimmy the relief and get 1200# of lift force on the rear.. which ain't real kind to all the parts back there..

there's the magic.

what SPECIFICALLY did you need to know. ( I'm surprised the shop manual didn't help much.. I know the aftermarket I&T FO-4 shop manual for a ford N is QUITE informative on the 9n/2n pump.. I'd be surprised if the fergy ver of that manual wasn't also informative.. though i freely admit to not owning a copy.. so can't verify that the fergy I&T manual is any better or worse than your dealer shop manual.. etc... hit a tractor supply and grab the fergy I&T manual on the shelf and browse the hyds section and see if it is any better.. if so buy it.. they are about 30$ usually..

soundguy

 

[Lazy]

Thanks soundguy for the reply. The problem was it wouldn't lift very much weight. We replaced the control valve and the safety relief valve hoping that would correct the problem. When we got everything back together I used the Hydraulic oil I use in my other tractors, Should we be using the 90 weight oil as you mentioned? In the book they say the TO- 30 pump makes use of an oscillating valve? But it doesn稚 say what an oscillating valve is or how it should work. On each side of the control valve in the casting there are openings and one question I have is are they blocked to produce pressure and when you shift the valve and uncover the openings it stops the pressure by letting the oil dump to the reservoir? Would you mind taking a phone call? The manual we have say痴 its prepared by the service department of Harry Ferguson, Inc. maybe the I&T manual would be better, I will try and find one after church tomorrow.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thanks soundguy for the reply. The problem was it wouldn't lift very much weight. We replaced the control valve and the safety relief valve hoping that would correct the problem. When we got everything back together I used the Hydraulic oil I use in my other tractors, Should we be using the 90 weight oil as you mentioned? In the book they say the TO- 30 pump makes use of an oscillating valve? But it doesn稚 say what an oscillating valve is or how it should work. On each side of the control valve in the casting there are openings and one question I have is are they blocked to produce pressure and when you shift the valve and uncover the openings it stops the pressure by letting the oil dump to the reservoir? Would you mind taking a phone call? The manual we have say痴 its prepared by the service department of Harry Ferguson, Inc. maybe the I&T manual would be better, I will try and find one after church tomorrow.

I&T manuals are essentially reprinted info taken from the OEM service manuals. You get LESS info and not more with I&T. (consider the OEM service manuals are 10 times as thick....quite a bit left out in certain areas) I&T manuals are handy to have around, but are somewhat lacking when compared to the "factory manuals". The I&T manuals I've seen on the Fergies are a conglomeration of info from both the service manual and the owners manual. They lack essential info from each. That said, I&T MAY or MAY NOT have the complete hydraulic service section from the OEM manuals contained with-in. Also worth noting, I've found several SERIOUS misprints of info in I&T manuals pertaining specifically to the Massey Harris 50/Ferguson F40/Massey Ferguson 50. (To the point where I totally MISTRUST anything I&T has to offer....)

You MIGHT have issues with the oil. Fergies SHOULD NOT use universal hydraulic oil/hy-tran/ect. They use a 90wt MINERAL oil specifically formulated for those tractors. (don't recall GL spec off the top of my head....I just got up)

 

[Soundguy]

I can't make any claims to the fergy version of the I&T.. I've never had one in my hand.. though now an curious and will quick-browse one next time I'm in TSC,.

I like the ford 2-9-8 N I&T manual.. however the ford NAA i&T manual is more worthless than.. uh.. a gum wrapper.

If I had to guess onthe gl spec of the oil.. I'd say gl 1 or 3.. but not 5 unless it was the yellow metal safe variety, due to all the yellow in those pumps.

Napa still sells 90w mineral oil, gl-1 mild ep in 5gp pails as part number 65-205.. they sell in 2g jugs.. though i don't recall the part number.

As far as mistakes.. I have seen a few.. heck.. many of the the reprint ford 51+ owners manuals you see for sale online still show the .015 front mount points setting and not the angle mount .025 setting... that one confuses a heck of alot of ford owners when they get their angle drive 8n and are doing their first service..

soundguy

I&T manuals are essentially reprinted info taken from the OEM service manuals. You get LESS info and not more with I&T. (consider the OEM service manuals are 10 times as thick....quite a bit left out in certain areas) I&T manuals are handy to have around, but are somewhat lacking when compared to the "factory manuals". The I&T manuals I've seen on the Fergies are a conglomeration of info from both the service manual and the owners manual. They lack essential info from each. That said, I&T MAY or MAY NOT have the complete hydraulic service section from the OEM manuals contained with-in. Also worth noting, I've found several SERIOUS misprints of info in I&T manuals pertaining specifically to the Massey Harris 50/Ferguson F40/Massey Ferguson 50. (To the point where I totally MISTRUST anything I&T has to offer....)

You MIGHT have issues with the oil. Fergies SHOULD NOT use universal hydraulic oil/hy-tran/ect. They use a 90wt MINERAL oil specifically formulated for those tractors. (don't recall GL spec off the top of my head....I just got up)

 

[Lazy]

Thanks guy's for the help. I have a couple of question about the construction of the control valve body or sleeve. How are the ports positioned so the spool can divert the oil? a cutaway drawing would sure help understand how things work, and what useful purpose is the rod attached to the back of the spool with a key stock looking piece about 2" long at the end of the rod? You would think a service manual would explain those type things in detail. That piece wasn't part of the new valve assembly we bought? Could they have stopped using it because it didn't do anything? I would be willing to buy a busted housing so I could cut it in half to see how the oil is moved from point A to point B If I could find one.

Charlie.

 

[Soundguy]

Well.. again.. I can't speak for the I&T ver of the fergy manuals.. or the fergy manuals themselves.. however.. the FORD N manual has a schematic drawing which I believe is what you are looking for.. ie.. showing the valving.. , safety and check, pump pistons.. etc.etc.

The diagram is actually of the 8n pump.. which is physically different than the 9n/2n pump due to it having position control linkage in the top cover, and it actuates the control valve with a lever vs a fork.. however, the plumbing of the pump is nearly identical.

I could make a copy of the diagram and FAX it to you.. or fold up and drop in an envelope via snail mail..

soundguy

 

[Lazy]

Soundguy that would be super we don稚 have a fax set up; all we use are cell phones. I値l send you my address via pm or if you like I could send you an SASE if you send me your address. And if you would like to have a copy of the hydraulic section from my Ferguson manual I can do that also.
Charlie.

 

[Lazy]

a pic of the control valve

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. same 't' valve a 9n/2n uses.

send me your snal mail address via pm. I'll drop the copied page in the post today.

mind you the diagram will show the 8n control rod and control valve that has a slot instead of the 9n/fergy control fork and t valve. but functionally insid ethe pump.. they do the same exact thing.. so the flow circuit is the same for the draft hyds the 9n/2n and the fergy has.

soundguy