M59 hydraulics got slow and weak.

[BandDcabinet]

I posted this in the wrong thread. Saw your name and responded without looking at the thread.

Hersheyfarms... I don't dig at 2700 rpms more like 1800 to 2000. Think I already posted that. I don't have 650 hours. No hydraulic problems. I run the hydraulic feed chipper at 2500 for hours at a time. Sorry to hear of your troubles. If you think oil temperature is a problem why not monitor the oil temperature. What in the oil pump is failing? I'll take a look at the pump information in the Kubota hydraulic shop manual I have. Anyone know the type of pump? gear pump? Are the 3 pt hyd control levers pushed completely into the correct position? If we step back this is a rather straight forward system. Perhaps looking at the pump(s) is not the problem but the result. What else in the system loop might cause excessive pressure on the pump? Valve elsewhere in the loop... front aux with one on the electric select buttons stuck without anything attached....

I guess my thought is to look thru the entire system. Pump or relief valve may be the result not the problem.

Have you ever had the BH off the machine? What is the pressure in the BH loops with all BH valves closed? Is there a problem in the return line back to the sump? Factory assembled or Dealer assembled? Correct quick disconnects installed? Do you have rear remotes installed? If they are not closed or properly installed you will loose power to the BH and loader.

I have not had the occasion to need to run the BH at 2700rpm. Trenching, pulling stumps, digging pits in clay.... always had plenty of power and speed.

I'll scan the hydraulic circuits from the hyd shop manual and PM them to you if you want them.

 

[curtisfarmer]

Hersheyfarm, well that really sucks. Too bad this happened to you, I work with my machines too. The M59 is a solid machine, hopefully this is just a fluke problem and they get you back in action ASAP! I have 2 L48s and they started my business and continue to be the workhorses they were meant to be. I think this is the 1st bad expereince I have heard of for a M59, and although that does you no good, have faith in Kubota products. Clearly better than a JD110 or the others. BTW, I pull mine with a 450....and love it.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Hersheyfarm, well that really sucks. Too bad this happened to you, I work with my machines too. The M59 is a solid machine, hopefully this is just a fluke problem and they get you back in action ASAP! I have 2 L48s and they started my business and continue to be the workhorses they were meant to be. I think this is the 1st bad expereince I have heard of for a M59, and although that does you no good, have faith in Kubota products. Clearly better than a JD110 or the others. BTW, I pull mine with a 450....and love it.

If I go to a f450 I will get another full size tlb. I agree this m59 is the perfect size.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

I posted this in the wrong thread. Saw your name and responded without looking at the thread.

Hersheyfarms... I don't dig at 2700 rpms more like 1800 to 2000. Think I already posted that. I don't have 650 hours. No hydraulic problems. I run the hydraulic feed chipper at 2500 for hours at a time. Sorry to hear of your troubles. If you think oil temperature is a problem why not monitor the oil temperature. What in the oil pump is failing? I'll take a look at the pump information in the Kubota hydraulic shop manual I have. Anyone know the type of pump? gear pump? Are the 3 pt hyd control levers pushed completely into the correct position? If we step back this is a rather straight forward system. Perhaps looking at the pump(s) is not the problem but the result. What else in the system loop might cause excessive pressure on the pump? Valve elsewhere in the loop... front aux with one on the electric select buttons stuck without anything attached....

I guess my thought is to look thru the entire system. Pump or relief valve may be the result not the problem.

Have you ever had the BH off the machine? What is the pressure in the BH loops with all BH valves closed? Is there a problem in the return line back to the sump? Factory assembled or Dealer assembled? Correct quick disconnects installed? Do you have rear remotes installed? If they are not closed or properly installed you will loose power to the BH and loader.

I have not had the occasion to need to run the BH at 2700rpm. Trenching, pulling stumps, digging pits in clay.... always had plenty of power and speed.

I'll scan the hydraulic circuits from the hyd shop manual and PM them to you if you want them.

Today I only dug a little but looked at everything. Basically I have narrowed down to the swing booms cylinders.They are low in power and if I quickly go left or right the boom will move in slow motion with the lever fully depressed. I can let off a little then go full on lever and goes fast. It's like something sticks open and it only goes half speed/power. My problems happen when running machine for a good length of time and hydraulic are hot, then all power goes out. It's like digging in slow motion.

 

[ManAtArms]

Reproduce? Nobody here rents them. I have to use it the next 2 days. The first time the pumps went I could barely lift the front bucket empty, I don't want to reproduce that on a rental. My pumps are going again. Dealer said to use it til it won't work no more and keep calling customer service. Yup, thats were I am at. I'll be renting my buddy's cx next week.

I'm not saying you WANT to reproduce the issue, I'm just saying IF you're somehow pushing the machine to the limits and you can get that to happen with another M59 then it will validate your theory that the cooling system may be undersized for the flow.

It sounds to me like the dealer isn't handling your problem aggressively enough. It's not an innexpensive tractor and they should be calling Kubota to go to bat for you and fix it.

 

[rScotty]

Today I only dug a little but looked at everything. Basically I have narrowed down to the swing booms cylinders.They are low in power and if I quickly go left or right the boom will move in slow motion with the lever fully depressed. I can let off a little then go full on lever and goes fast. It's like something sticks open and it only goes half speed/power. My problems happen when running machine for a good length of time and hydraulic are hot, then all power goes out. It's like digging in slow motion.

I consider my dealer to be friend and try to relate to them that way. But friends sometimes need a jump start in getting things done. By now we have pretty good evidence that other M59s don't have the same problem. You've done more than your part, documented it all, and it puzzles me why the hydraulic problem should be on your shoulders and not the manufacturer's. Frankly, it doesn't sound like it should be all that hard to diagnose and fix. Dealers have resources; sometimes they need motivation.

If it were mine I'd give the dealer a deadline and tell him that on that date I was going to switch over to "mad dog" mode. MD mode involves lawyers, business bureaus, claims courts, newspapers, and whatever local politicians might be willing to listen. Maybe offer to swap them some backhoe work.
rScotty

 

[Mac in PA]

Hersheyfarm,

WOW, you have quite a large thread going here! It took some time to read through it but from what I gathered the problem occurs at operating temperature and affects all the hydraulics.

If this is the case, I would be looking at the main relief valve, probably sticking open when the valve parts warm up.

Remove the spool from the main relief valve and polish it with 600 grit paper. This could take some time since most hydraulic systems (at least the ones I've worked on) use hard chrome on valve spools. The spool bore should be polished also.

After polishing, clean the spool and valve body real good. Don't want any contamination in there.

Reassemble and check relief pressure and set to specs.

Mac

 

[Hersheyfarm]

I talked to a closer dealer, and will be giving them a shot. I told them everything so I didn't blindside them. This will be last chance and then will demand a replacement.

 

[Chuck K.]

I talked to a closer dealer, and will be giving them a shot. I told them everything so I didn't blindside them. This will be last chance and then will demand a replacement.

Any updates?

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Any updates?

Yes. Sorry to the thread.

I used same dealer. They changed more releif valves, put gauges on and adjusted adjustable releif valves to maximum pressure. Bottom line, it runs and works good but this little machine suffers from heat. I have not used it much for my business because I have gotten very busy and started sub contracting the digging. So no long digs with it since last dealer trip. I just use it for mixing feed/mineral in front bucket for cows. It's perfect for that. I think I will go back to full size backhoe for work.