Buying Advice Diesel generator for home back up use

   / Diesel generator for home back up use #31  
I live in an area that has many power outages that vary in duration. I have no need for instant on power but do have the ability to generate what I need with a 15kw PTO and a 7.5 15kw stand alone air cooled gen set. The small air cooled unit is a Chinese clone of a Yanmar and is really fuel efficient. I have found diesel to be widely available even during state wide outages when gasoline dried up in a day or 2.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #32  
This is it in a nutshell nobody wants a callback. Code requires you to size a genset a certain way, and those calculations lead to a HUGELY oversized generator compared to if you do your load balancing manually and start motors one at a time etc.

That's wonderful if you get to stay home during an outage to manage the power. I don't have that luxury (there are times we both have to travel) and I'd hate to come home to a flooded basement because my generator wasn't up to the task. :eek:
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #33  
I would get by with a 6k genset if possible and a good choice would be this 6500w Honda. Honda EU6500iS Generator 6500 watt Inverter, Super Quiet | Wise Sales

If you are sure you want diesel then look into a Cummins Onan quiet diesel also available at wisesales above.

I have both Hondas (gas) and Onan commercial quiet diesels both are very good and much less noise than most you see today.

If you wan't to save some coins I agree with others about a pto genset for your Kubota. I usually recommend a standalone genset if people have kids as it would be safer than them fooling around with a running tractor for days.


In my first post #9, I included the Cummins Onan Quiet diesel generators and a link showing sizes from 3kw to 20kw this would be an excellent choice for the OP. Onan has all the stuff to take it to the next level, just depends how much you want to spend. I think most of these are using a Kubota diesel engine too.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #34  
My point wasn't defending larger generators, it was simply saying that 10KW isn't necessarily "big". My neighbor's house is a fair amount smaller than mine, and he's running either a 14KW or 17KW unit (can't recall)....many other people in the area are as well. There's a reason dedicated standby generators start around 8KW, and go way bigger than that...8KW just isn't that big.

I ran the numbers on our house prior to the install, and came up with the same ballpark two electricians did, and a couple of online calculators...I didn't keep any of that data, so I can't quote a figure, but 20KW wasn't even close to being an over abundance, it was slightly more than a max running load (generator is spec'd at 75amps continuous).

I never said we couldn't survive without AC, just that my wife wouldn't be able to work effectively, which is a non-starter. Right before we moved in, the power was out for four days while we were doing a remodel, and if we had been living here, we would have found a hotel to stay in...it was brutal.

If the OP thinks he needs 10KW, it's really not going to save him a bunch of money dropping down to 7/8KW, but it might cause him to lose things he'd like to keep running during an outage.

Fair enough.

I was tweaking your nose a bit about the wife. Sorry for that, as I well know all wives have their "non-starters." :laughing:

I know it can be sort of brutal in your area, I grew up there. Had cousins in Milan, MI. If you want real brutal, visit Hannibal, MO in August when it's 108*. Most miserable weather I've ever experienced, and I've spent summer months in Phoenix, AZ.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #35  
I just got a 21kW open-frame diesel unit from Central Maine Diesel, and am in the process of installing it. It has an Isuzu engine and Mecc Alte alternator, and was assembled by GPP in New Jersey and shipped direct from them. The purchase/delivery process was easy, but I expect install to take another couple weeks at the pace I'm going. Also have to built a shed for the generator, run wire, etc. I did get the trench dug and conduit buried, which was a big step. Also have the shed foundation done. Once a few more electrical components arrive, I plan to finish things up.

As far as size, output, and fuel use, consider this. Prices go up $300-900 for about every 4-5kW increase in the 10-20kW range, so there isn't often a huge price penalty to going larger, if the need justifies it. The way I looked at it, if I was going to spend $6800 for 14kW, the jump to 21kW for $7700 wasn't big compared to the 50% increase in capacity. For our home, the minimum was 10kW. We'd need 14kW to start living comfortably, and 19kW for all possibilities.

Another thing I did was graph the fuel usage of the diesel generators in the 8-21kW range, and they all follow a linear trend that overlaps. Some of the larger units are comparable or better in fuel usage running at 25% then the smaller units are running at 75-100%. So there is often little to no penalty fuel wise. Where the big units will use more fuel than small units is if they are just idling at little to no load. Depending on your usage patterns, that may be a factor. But overall, I am expecting anywhere from 3-7 days of conservative runtime from a 55gal drum of diesel with my 21kW Isuzu unit, depending on the season and our needs. It pulls 0.45 gph at 25%, 0.74 gph at 50%, 1.05 gph at 75%, and 1.44 gph at 100%.

I would recommend spending to get the enclosure, breaker kit, sub-base fuel tank, and any other extras that are needed to make your install go more efficiently if your budget allows and/or if you're not handy with all sorts of electrical/mechanical work. In retrospect, I am probably saving 50% in material costs by doing all that myself, but it requires a lot of time/labor on top of that, and some specialized tools. As an example, GPP wanted $600 for their breaker kit (mounted near the generator to protect any downstream service wiring to the home). So far it has cost me about $300 in materials and a special crimping tool, to make the same sort of thing.

None of the work is hard, but it takes time and materials and tools, and good/expert advice and research. I've been fortunate to draw on the experience of a few folks here on TBN, which has helped immensely. I also have spent hours researching and understanding codes for both electrical and install requirements to make sure everything is done properly and safely. A local dealer quoted me $8000-10000 labor to install a generator, and in retrospect that is probably fair for materials and costs.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #36  
And another question for the OP is does he need portability?

Portable gas generators are easy to use elsewhere. Portable diesel generators are heavier. PTO generators require a PTO.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #37  
We live in northern NY state.I went with a 10k PTO driven unit.It full fills all my needs.It will run the house,garage ect.with no problem.Lots of arguments on stand alone or pto driven....I know my tractor will start and that I have fuel for it.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #38  
That's wonderful if you get to stay home during an outage to manage the power. I don't have that luxury (there are times we both have to travel) and I'd hate to come home to a flooded basement because my generator wasn't up to the task. :eek:

Thats why you have various priority circuits.

And it sounds like you must have an auto transfer switch.. something else that adds considerably to the cost. No doubt it makes life easier, but that convenience, like having a genny sized for a whole house adds considerable expense when the number of uses are factored in.

Guys are throwing out suggestions for 20kw gensets. The OP himself said he calculated a load of 10KW. What most reasonable people here are saying is that he likely could get buy with LESS than even his 10kw calculation if he takes the work on to balance his usage. That lowers his costs considerably, and it sounds like he's on a budget.

I mean while were at it, why not go whole hog... Clearly this is the minimum he should be looking at in order to be comfortable for those few hours a year without power:rolleyes:
power_station_new_cats_img_2301.jpg
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #39  
This topic has been pretty well covered but a couple more thoughts.
What size is the Kubota to know what size pto gen set it can handle.
For those who calculate a 5200W house load and purchase a 5500W generator. Not a good idea as small generators are somewhat " over rated to the brink of smoking" if operated at nameplate capacity continuous . I wouldn't run more than 5000W continuous on a 6500w gen set.
It takes 3 gallons of diesel fuel through the engine to equal the heat of one gallon of diesel burned for heat. We have a kerosene wick heater for the church which has electric heat. We store jugs of Jet A-1 which is pure kerosene to either run the heater. Or to pour into the diesel's fuel tank. No worry of the kerosene jelling in cold weather either.
Clean power is important too. Electronic controls can be ruined by undersized generators or cheapo which don't keep voltage, frequency or spikes suppressed .
Both Kohler and Cummins are supposed to build a good auto gen set. Generac are better than they used to be but the jury is still out .
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #40  
One note on a PTO genset, there is no noticeable performance penalty (within reason) to going bigger. So, spinning a 20kw PTO unit with a tractor that can only put out 10kw isn't a big deal as long as you dont try to pull more than 10kw.

Aaron Z
 
 
Top