Trying to decide... to purchase or plant alfalfa/orchard grass hay for horses

[Dadnatron]

I'm tossing around putting about 30ac of my place into alfalfa/orchard grass mix hay for personal use primarily. This will produce MUCH MORE hay than I need, but at this moment, I don't need that much pasture either. My initial plan was to put everything into bluegrass/orchard pasture, however, as I think about it, that will be much more pasture than I need right now. I will need to purchase hay for the horses, so I thought that I'd look into putting some of my place into alfalfa/orchard grass

So, I got in touch with my County Exchange agent who put me in touch with a very... lets say 'verbose' fella who spent about an hour with me, on the phone, talking about all that is involved with putting a 'top knotch' field together. He sounded like he really knows his stuff, and I am not discounting what he told me in the least. But, he also said that it might take 5 years to pay back the 'investment' of putting in a field.

Now, for me, I don't know whether that is going to be something that I want to do, if that is the case. Because in 5 years, I will likely/possibly be putting that field into permanent pasture. I was thinking that if I was able to get 5 years of 'hay' off it, I wouldn't need to be buying that hay for my horses. If the land was able to produce enough in itself, that I can split the crop with the Custom Guy, then all I would need to 'pay for' would be amendments and seed. I would take X and he would take the rest and we would walk away 'happy'. That was my goal, but I'm not sure whether that is a reality.

I'm going to meet in person with him this Sunday, and talk about options etc. He is a custom hay guy and does it all over the area. But if I'm going to be paying as much (or more) than I'd have to pay to jus purchase the amount of hay I actually need in the first place, then I'm not sure whether it would be worth it to put in alfalfa.

But, what I'd like to know from you is...

The field is currently in annual rye, just to have cover for my intentions beginning this fall. It needs a little, but not a lot of lime to get it to the 'perfect' stage, according to soil samples. It is a pretty 'easy' field to farm in that it is basically a rolling rectangle of about 30ac. No real impediments to just going back and forth.

I don't have a great idea of how much hay I will actually need per year, but it would be far less than 1/2 of the 5-6T/ac that this land is projected to produce. The only thing is that I want 'mine' in 40lb small squares. Easy for my wife to handle.

Is this worth the effort to put in the hay? Is it worth paying/sharing to have it done knowing that there is a chance that in 5 years or so, it could all be put into pasture grass? If I just 'paid' a per bale fee, how easy/difficult is it to sell? I'd rather just take what I want/need and let him have the rest. But I don't really know whether installing a 'good quality' alfalfa field will make this endeavor more costly than just purchasing hay.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Nice word, I had to look up verbose. Have you considered grazing that pasture one you get out of it what you want? I'd rather invest in my place over someone else's. Also, you can buy a used discbine and square baler for a decent amount. Then you can sell the hay you don't use and pay yourself back. I don't know what the market is up there but those types of bales here would fetch $8-11 per bale easy. Horse quality hay is high dollar! With those prices, I think you could just about break even after a year once the grass is established. 30 acres will produce a bunch of hay

Brett

 

[smstonypoint]

I'm tossing around putting about 30ac of my place into alfalfa/orchard grass mix hay for personal use primarily. This will produce MUCH MORE hay than I need, but at this moment, I don't need that much pasture either. My initial plan was to put everything into bluegrass/orchard pasture, however, as I think about it, that will be much more pasture than I need right now. I will need to purchase hay for the horses, so I thought that I'd look into putting some of my place into alfalfa/orchard grass

So, I got in touch with my County Exchange agent who put me in touch with a very... lets say 'verbose' fella who spent about an hour with me, on the phone, talking about all that is involved with putting a 'top knotch' field together. He sounded like he really knows his stuff, and I am not discounting what he told me in the least. But, he also said that it might take 5 years to pay back the 'investment' of putting in a field.

It sounds to me like you were talking to a state or area Extension forage specialist. My experience from having worked for 30 years with Extension specialists (whether they be ag. economists, agronomists, ag. engineers, horticulturalists, or whatever) is that they are more than willing to share their wisdom, often at great length

Here's a link to forage enterprise budgets from UK that may be useful in your deliberations: New #1

Good luck.

Steve

 

[Ford850]

You'll get all sorts of wisdom on here too, but only your local conditions will apply. A few years ago I had a friend (farmer) interested in converting 15 - 20 acres of mine into hay. He said he needed 8 years minimum, preferable a 10 year commitment to make any money. I thought he was full of it. I suggested 5 and he walked. Lots of risk and not so much reward in hay up here, unless you need hay for yourself.

 

[rustyshakelford]

You'll get all sorts of wisdom on here too, but only your local conditions will apply. A few years ago I had a friend (farmer) interested in converting 15 - 20 acres of mine into hay. He said he needed 8 years minimum, preferable a 10 year commitment to make any money. I thought he was full of it. I suggested 5 and he walked. Lots of risk and not so much reward in hay up here, unless you need hay for yourself.

I wonder what his cost per bale is. If he can get 100 bales per acre, your at 3000 bales per cutting. 3 cuts per year is 9000 bales. If you sell on the low end of $7 per bale but keep 1000 for your horses your talking about $56,000 per year. If you cant plant and fertilize for half that and spend the other half on equipment and labor then I don't know what to do! Even hire a custom cutter that'll go in on 50/50 shares leaves you with $28k and the only cost is establishing the pasture. Just something to consider. Twine isn't that expensive and only cutting 90 acres per year isn't asking much out of your equipment. The worst part is gettin the hay from the field and stacking it in a barn or atleast under cover, remember horse hay people are picky

Brett

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I wonder what his cost per bale is. If he can get 100 bales per acre, your at 3000 bales per cutting. 3 cuts per year is 9000 bales. If you sell on the low end of $7 per bale but keep 1000 for your horses your talking about $56,000 per year. If you cant plant and fertilize for half that and spend the other half on equipment and labor then I don't know what to do! Even hire a custom cutter that'll go in on 50/50 shares leaves you with $28k and the only cost is establishing the pasture. Just something to consider. Twine isn't that expensive and only cutting 90 acres per year isn't asking much out of your equipment. The worst part is gettin the hay from the field and stacking it in a barn or atleast under cover, remember horse hay people are picky

Brett

I hate to break it to you, but your yield goes down with every cutting but i have never done high production hay. Atleast that has been my experience in PA. Also, I'd laugh pretty hard at someone trying to sell me hay at $7 per bale but I don't feed straight alfalfa, the horses get too hot. One thing that hasn't been factored into this is the time and labor. you are at the mercy of the weather and your help. The equipment can be gotten cheap if you already have a tractor and can spin a wrench.

 

[Dadnatron]

According to the guy who is boarding our horses currently, he says a 'load of hay is roughly $5K and has about 500 bales.' So... $10/bale delivered and I suspect stacked, although I don't know about the stacking part. And... I am not sure how heavy those $10 bales are... 40lbs is light for a bale in my opinion, but is enough to ask anyone to throw around for feeding. We began at 60 and went to 80lbs depending on what we were using them for, but that was back in my youthful days.

I will definitely need to look into this more. If I can have a 'market' and can use some hay proceeds to offset other costs on the farm, this certainly takes on a more significant position in my thoughts.

I have a 100hp tractor and I can spin a wrench decently. I am, for the most part, time limited. That is my biggest issue. Maybe I will hire it out for a year and see how it looks like. Then perhaps, take on pieces and parts should time permit. Or perhaps, I'll just like the other guy doing it and getting it done.

If I 'DID' go with doing it myself, I suspect I'd need a disc mower, tedder, merger??, and baler. If I went that way with a 100hp cabbed tractor... do you have recommendations on what I should be getting? I will be honest, I'd rather spend more and have fewer breakdowns, so things with a high reliability would be worth a reasonable premium to me.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

if you can't commit the random time to getting the hay done, i wouldn't bother investing the money into the equipment. You make hay when its ready, not when you are.

As far as equipment, I think you are going to want something with conditioning rolls, a discbine is faster than a haybine but you can run a larger haybine than discbine, absolutely need a tedder if you get heavy dew or need to get things spread out more than the mower will provide. I never used a merger but have used a roll-a-bar rake and a wheel rake. The wheel rake did better for gathering hay up, the bar rake worked better for turning windrows over. As far as balers, I'd see what dealers are nearby and go with one of those so you have a chance of getting parts if something breaks with hay on the ground.

 

[rustyshakelford]

I hate to break it to you, but your yield goes down with every cutting but i have never done high production hay. Atleast that has been my experience in PA. Also, I'd laugh pretty hard at someone trying to sell me hay at $7 per bale but I don't feed straight alfalfa, the horses get too hot. One thing that hasn't been factored into this is the time and labor. you are at the mercy of the weather and your help. The equipment can be gotten cheap if you already have a tractor and can spin a wrench.

He's not wanting straight alfalfa but an orchord grass/alfalfa mix. Straight alfalfa bales are going for atleast $15 a bale in SE Texas. The prices I said are wholesale. Go to a feed store and buy a grass bale and it'll be $11 minimum. Apparently it's regional. 2nd cutting seems to yield the best grass here. 3rd tapers off some depending on the rain.

We've had to bale at midnight to catch the moisture right. I think best thing you could do is go in on shares with a local guy. 50/50 is common here or depending on how much you want to mess with, sometimes can get the place baled for $2 per bale and $1 to haul and stack at your barn. Still plenty of meat on the bone to make it worth your time.

Like most of our spirited posts, it's a regional thing. Apparently people are willing to pay more here and the sellers are more than happen to put high prices

Brett

 

[TheMan419]

I'd check to see how much you can sell the hay for. Up here in Northern Indiana we just paid $5/bale for 2nd cutting alfalfa mix. Delivered and partially stacked. I say partially because the seller and a helper came and the wife and I helped as well (as per our agreement) so maybe $6/bale if we did nothing other than write the check. These were small squares and pretty tight and heavy. Probably 50-60 lbs/bale.

I'd think you would have a good hay marked in KY so $10/bale seems high.