Int'l 47 baler?

[prof fate]

We're considering doing about 10-12 acres of hay.

Our farrier has a McCormick Interntional (IH) 47 baler. Googling shows our tractor can run it (30pto hp).

He used it till 2 years ago, broke a needle point, replaced it, replaced something else...had to hay so just bought another baler, this one has been sitting and need...timed? or?

Price is right $300.

Never baled hay, never touched a baler or been closer than driving past a field that's being baled.

I'm very mechanically inclined - spent 15 years as a full time car/bike/boat mechanic, have 'all the tools' (worked about 10 years in dealerships, went to school for it).

But I don't want to get something that can't be fixed or fixed reasonably (price wise). Since it's nto working, and I've no idea how it's supposed to work..I'm going in blind. Googling turns up 'you need THE book'..the book isn't the normal book (that ones says go see a dealer). Being older I'd imagine some parts are NLA. Don't want to be in that position either.

Any thoughts or input, experiences and advice you can give me?

 

[super55]

The IH 47 baler was a very good baler back in its day (the knotter mechanism was copied by all other manufacturers and still in use today). A busted needle wouldn't be too much of an issue. Could have been busted by just trying to bale really dense bales.

The biggest thing with these square balers is making sure everything is in time. Especially the plungers and the needles with the tying mechanism. Usually the the gears will have notches or are scribed but sometimes these old chains are stretched and my need to be replaced.

For 300 dollars I would jump on it. Baler is almost worth that much in scrap and sounds like it won't take a whole lot to get it into action. Hand spin the PTO before you run it on the tractor to ensure nothing is binding and it should be OK.

 

[Tx Jim]

super55
Please explain how "really dense bales" can cause a needle to break as this is the 1st time I've heard of that & I've been around/repairing/operating small sq balers for over 50 yrs..

My suggestion to prof fate is check PH to needle timing & be 100% positive PH stop is functioning correctly

 

[StuartDK45SE]

Look up ChuckE2009 on youtube. He bought a used square baler and went through it, particularly in the area of the ram and what it slides on and the knife edge. I learned a lot.

 

[super55]

super55
Please explain how "really dense bales" can cause a needle to break as this is the 1st time I've heard of that & I've been around/repairing/operating small sq balers for over 50 yrs..

My suggestion to prof fate is check PH to needle timing & be 100% positive PH stop is functioning correctly

Tx, What I was trying to point out that the IH47 is what most would call a gen-1 hay baler. I'm not sure but this might be IH first square baler they brought to market. That being said, These are by no means high capacity balers. These older balers are a lot more particular about how much and how fast your put hay in the feed chamber, bale density and such. When you start to try to ram hay in them as faster then the baler can handle it problems occur.

But you are correct. With a properly timed baler thats not being overfed bale density should be a non issue. After re-reading my post, I can see how it could have been easily misinterpreted.

 

[zzvyb6]

I just posted a list of 3 videos about balers on another thread. Look them up. Your problem as I see it is where will parts come from ?

If the previous owner broke a needle they also most probably broke a knotter frame, too. Whether the knotter was assembled and adjusted properly for the type of twine used is anybody's guess.

I've seen needles broken from trying to plunge wet hay. For the record, the needles rise as the plunger is LEAVING the bale chamber, but sometimes there will be so high a resistance that hay flakes push back and resist the needles exiting the bale chamber. Coupled with loose drive chains on the feeder forks plus a weak needle brake and a plunger stop with a rusted spring and packed with mud, chaff, and even stones, the timing will jump and whammo ! Usually the needles are not hit by the plunger, but break when they can't pass through the needle frame. That's why the frames get broken as well.

Baling is fun because the really cool stuff happens in the blink or an eye. But make sure your parts, bearing, springs, tires, driveline, chains, linkages and hay are in the best condition for baling at a reasonable ground speed.

 

[leeave96]

I just posted a list of 3 videos about balers on another thread. Look them up. Your problem as I see it is where will parts come from ?

If the previous owner broke a needle they also most probably broke a knotter frame, too. Whether the knotter was assembled and adjusted properly for the type of twine used is anybody's guess.

I've seen needles broken from trying to plunge wet hay. For the record, the needles rise as the plunger is LEAVING the bale chamber, but sometimes there will be so high a resistance that hay flakes push back and resist the needles exiting the bale chamber. Coupled with loose drive chains on the feeder forks plus a weak needle brake and a plunger stop with a rusted spring and packed with mud, chaff, and even stones, the timing will jump and whammo ! Usually the needles are not hit by the plunger, but break when they can't pass through the needle frame. That's why the frames get broken as well.

Baling is fun because the really cool stuff happens in the blink or an eye. But make sure your parts, bearing, springs, tires, driveline, chains, linkages and hay are in the best condition for baling at a reasonable ground speed.

On a John Deere and New Holland baler, the needles come into the bale chamber as the plunger begins to compress the bale. There are slots in the plunger for the needles to pass when delivering twine to the knotters. These slots keep the hay off the needles as the plunger compresses the hay. It does not matter if you are baling dry, wet, loose or tight bales, the plunger cannot physically touch the needles if properly timed.

However, if timing is lost and the plunger is compressing a wad of hay and the needles come in in front of it - effectively blocking the needle pass thru slots in the plunger face, the plunger will hit and break the needles. However, if that happens, the plunger stop is out of adjustment or not working. Between proper timing and a functional plunger safety stop, the needles should never break regardless of what is being baled or condition of the hay.

Maybe IH is different, but that is how it works with a New Holland and John Deere baler.

Small Square Baler Knotter - YouTube

 

[hawkeye08]

Growing up, we had (2) IH 57 balers and (1) 56. They all had 4 cylinder gas engines on them so we could pull them with any of our tractors. We "baled" a few needles when things got out of time, but it was seldom, perhaps twice in 6yrs that I was baling.

Engine speed (or PTO speed), ground speed, size of windrow, etc all were contributing factors. The 56 baler would "miss" a tie perhaps 1 per 100 bales if the throttle was on recommended speed, but never missed if one notch down from that.

You should be able to find manuals and parts, but remember that many of the sources for this old stuff are not online with it. We bought a "parts" baler at one time also, since some of the parts were harder to get and farming was our only source of income.

Parts and diagrams available on Messicks Case (47) - INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER RECTANGULAR BALER (1/63-12/88) Parts Diagrams

And operators manuals International 37 and 47 Baler Manual | Farm Manuals Fast