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  1. #1
    Bronze Member 2310 guy's Avatar
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    BI, BC, Canada
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    MF 2310

    Default Hydraulic valve for grapple... what one?

    Hi, I'm looking for a valve for the grapple i'm building. My problem is what one to get and how to plumb it. I was looking at mono block directional control blocks.

    Do I want one that is spring loaded and return to netraul or do I want one that will remain in whatever position it is placed

    Also there is a cheap one for $109 i'm looking at. Its single spool, double acting. It doesn't look like it has a pressure relief valve built into it, if it does I will but it for sure


    Also when installing the valve I'm still a little confused. I got a good diagram of how to run the valve in series of the FEL valve. I was wonder if I could tee off the supply line to the FEL valve and the same for the return line.
    http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/a...valves-backhoe
    My FEL valve has 3 line 1) for supply 2) for return 3) I assuming it goes to the BH.

    I kinda lost right now on what valve to buy and how to plumb it. Any help would be great. My Tractor is a Massey Ferguson gc2310

    Thanks KC

  2. #2
    Advertiser kennyd's Avatar
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    Westminster, MD
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    John Deere 4110, 455AWS

    Default Re: Hydraulic valve for grapple... what one?

    You are looking for an open center, spring return to nuetral, PB cabable, work ports blocked in nuetral, double acting spool valve.

    The best one for the CUT's due to its size is the Eaton/Cessna compact valves.
    HERE is the Single spooler...
    HERE is the Two spooler...
    KennyD
    www.boltonhooks.com

    #BoltOnHooks



    Bolt On Grab Hooks, Weld On Grab Hooks, Specialty Chain and Rigging Accessories, Specialty Hydraulic Components, and MUCH more!

    Simple JDParts Tutorial HERE

    Visit our YouTube Channel

  3. #3
    Super Member dfkrug's Avatar
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    Feb 2004
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    5,248
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    NorCal
    Tractor
    05 Kioti CK30HST w/ Prairie Dog backhoe

    Default Re: Hydraulic valve for grapple... what one?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2310 guy
    Also when installing the valve I'm still a little confused. I got a good diagram of how to run the valve in series of the FEL valve. I was wonder if I could tee off the supply line to the FEL valve and the same for the return line.
    In general, the only Tee-ing you can do is for the low press return to
    tank on a valve.

    Since your loader has 3 hoses, one is IN, one is low press rtn to tank, and
    the last is prob Power Beyond to the 3PH. Your new valve uses this last
    port OUT as its IN connection, and the new valve's power beyond OUT
    goes where the loader valve's Power Beyond used to go. You will need
    to find a convenent place for the low press OUT of the new valve to go.
    It can Tee into the low press OUT of the FEL valve or you can find some
    other place on the tractor, incl possibly the oil fill port.

    You can get a Prince RD2500 mono-block valve with PWR BYD sleeve for
    under $100, even at Northern Tool.

  4. #4
    Bronze Member 2310 guy's Avatar
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    MF 2310

    Default Re: Hydraulic valve for grapple... what one?

    The valve I'm looking at is from princess auto. It cost's $149.99

    Features:
    Standard 3-position, 4-way/spring return to neutral unless otherwise stated
    Open centre
    Max. return line pressure: 1,100 PSI
    Relief valve pre-set @ 2,100 PSI, adjustable from 1,500 PSI to 3,750 PSI
    Control handles can be mounted in vertical or horizontal position
    Max. continuous pressure: 3,600 PSI

    It says the working port are ORB #6 and the service ports are ORB #8. The piston I have is also ORB # 6. I'm pretty sure everything on the front end loader is 1/4"... or #4?

    Should go with the #6 for the grapple or #4. I would like to go #4 if thats what my tractor has.

  5. #5
    Super Member 3RRL's Avatar
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    Foothills of the Giant Sequoia's, California
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    55HP 4WD KAMA 554 and 4 x 4 Jinma 284

    Default Re: Hydraulic valve for grapple... what one?

    By "the piston" you have do you mean that is the cylinder for the grapple? If so, it has those ORB #6 threads in it? Then if it was me, I would just use that size instead of the #4. Some guys will disagree with me because they want to slow the grapple down. But since you are using a handle control valve, and not a solenoid operated valve, you will have the luxury of "feathering" the grapple to make it go slow just like your fel. In doing so, you will also have the ability to move it quickly if desired such as when you want to grab something quickly ...don't leave that option out of the equation.

    I know you have a diagram of how to plumb your new valve, but if you are still confused, this is what you can do.

    - You will need to feed it from a power beyond sleeve from another valve, or directly from the pump output (pressure side).
    - In your case, I believe you want to feed it from your fel valve.
    - Your fel valve may already have a power beyond sleeve in it, if not, you can buy one for the valve IF the valve is set up to take one. In other words, if your valve has power beyond capability.
    - If not, you can still feed it from the outlet on your fel valve to the inlet on your new valve.
    - You didn't say if the new valve has power beyond capability. This is where it gets tricky because if you fel does NOT have power beyond, and your new valve DOES, then I would plumb the new valve first in line from the pump and use the power beyond from it to feed your fel valve. Using power beyond is a better way to feed another valve down the line.
    - However, you can still do it by having the fel valve feed the new valve.

    Plumbing from your fel valve to your new valve, fel valve has NO power beyond feature, new valve has NO power beyond either:
    - You would disconnect the line coming out of your fel valve and route it to the "in" on your new valve.
    - Then get another hose to go from the exit of your new valve and connect it where the fel exit was connected before.
    - Presumably to the sump or tank or to the 3pt ...whatever the fel valve exit was connected to before.

    Plumbing from your fel valve to your new valve, fel valve DOES HAVE power beyond in it, new valve also has power beyond:
    - Where does the power beyond from your fel valve go now? To the 3pt?
    -You can either disconnect the line coming out of the power beyond on your fel valve or whatever it attaches to.
    - Take that hose and stick it into the "in" on your new valve.
    -Does your new valve have power beyond port on it?
    - If so, Get another hose and use that power beyond to feed the 3pt or whatever was being fed by the fel valve before.
    - Then you need to run a hose from the "exit" or "out" on your new valve that returns to sump ... the hydraulic reservoir.
    - You can do this by "Teeing" into another return to sump line, such as where your fel returns to sump.
    - Just add a "T" into that line (going to sump or reservoir) and you are done.

    This post is getting pretty long, so I need to know if your new valve and fel valve have power beyond or not. Depending on that, there might be an optional way to plumb your system, like I said above. So I need to know that first.
    Rob-
    ...The Older I get...the Better I Used to be...
    Member of the Month

  6. #6
    Bronze Member 2310 guy's Avatar
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    MF 2310

    Default Re: Hydraulic valve for grapple... what one?

    Thanks for the detailed responce. I'm pretty sure my FEL has a PB, I think it goes to the 3pt. The valve I want to buy I'm not so sure yet. I'll buy the valve and find out. Its to late for me to get it today because I work afternoons... so maybe on friday.

    I want to rap this project up and move to the next so for sure I'll get the valve by the end of this weekend.

    Thanks again, KC

  7. #7
    Bronze Member 2310 guy's Avatar
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    MF 2310

    Default Re: Hydraulic valve for grapple... what one?

    Ok, I just call princess auto to double check the valve. It looks like for anough $19.99 I can buy a PB adapter for the valve i'm looking at (BM 20 spool valve)

    Thats $170 for the valve + $155 for the hydraulic piston + $120 in steel. So far I'm up to $445 and I still don't have my lines made up yet.

    The reason I wanted to use #4 lines and fittings is because I can get them for free They are all reusable fitting so I will be making the line myself. I need to find a reusible QD and I'm set. Keep my fingers crossed. We have a hydrauic fittings catalogue the size of a phone book. Maybe I can find the QD's i'm looking for in there.... *Fingers crossed*.

  8. #8
    Super Member 3RRL's Avatar
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    Foothills of the Giant Sequoia's, California
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    55HP 4WD KAMA 554 and 4 x 4 Jinma 284

    Default Re: Hydraulic valve for grapple... what one?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2310 guy
    Ok, I just call princess auto to double check the valve. It looks like for anough $19.99 I can buy a PB adapter for the valve i'm looking at (BM 20 spool valve)

    Thats $170 for the valve + $155 for the hydraulic piston + $120 in steel. So far I'm up to $445 and I still don't have my lines made up yet.

    The reason I wanted to use #4 lines and fittings is because I can get them for free They are all reusable fitting so I will be making the line myself. I need to find a reusible QD and I'm set. Keep my fingers crossed. We have a hydrauic fittings catalogue the size of a phone book. Maybe I can find the QD's i'm looking for in there.... *Fingers crossed*.
    For free is a pretty good price, so I would go for that too! There is nothing wrong with #4 for the grapple. I have read that using a smaller line orifice will allow you better control because the cylinder fills more slowly. But in the real world, I have not tried the difference, so it may not make any huge difference at all? Especially for grapple use. The real difference is the amount of flow (gals/min) your hydraulic pump produces anyway. Go for it.

    If your new valve has power beyond, then plumb it like I described the 2nd way. If you decide not to get the PB sleeve, you can run the exit from your new valve right to the 3pt or wherever it goes. It is just a better system with the power beyond. Here is some reading that will tell you a little more about it.
    http://www.baumhydraulics.com/UserFi...trol_valve.pdf
    Rob-
    ...The Older I get...the Better I Used to be...
    Member of the Month

  9. #9
    Bronze Member 2310 guy's Avatar
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    MF 2310

    Default Re: Hydraulic valve for grapple... what one?

    Ok, I got my new valve today. Its a BM20 (mane in Italy) There are two #8 ports on the sides labled P and T. There are also four #6 ports on top labled P, T, A, B,

    What working ports should I use? I am Assuming becaue there are four working ports the vavle can control two hydraulic pistons at the same time. I only need one so I guess I can block two working ports off.

    Also, I bought a PB sleeve. I'm wondering what #8 port I plug this into. P or T?



  10. #10
    Bronze Member 2310 guy's Avatar
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    MF 2310

    Default Re: Hydraulic valve for grapple... what one?

    I think I got it figured out. After taking the plugs out and actualy looking in the ports I saw that #6 and #8 P ports are connected. Same as #6 and #8 T ports.

    I figure if I put put my PB sleeve in the #8 P port, it will send fluid out the #6 P port.(to the FEL valve)

    If I pug the #6 T port I can Tee #8 to the return on my FEL.

    The only problem is the position of the P and T port are going to make mounting and pluming the new valve very awkward. It would be much easier if I put my PB sleeve in the T port and used P as the return.

    Is this posible

    Edit: FORGET THE ABOVE

    I need to find out what port is the return and what one is the pressure. When I look in the #8 T port I can see that there is a machined surface for the o-ring to rest off the PB sleeve. Also both #6 and #8 T port have smaller opening. So T port must be the pressure side. (restriction to flow equals pressure) The P port are larger, less restriction to flow, low pressure. Also there is an oil gallery from the relief spring attacted to the P port. So this must be the low pressure-return side.

    Form looking inside the valve as best as posible I've figured Pressure comes in through the #6 T port, it goes throught #8 T port (PB sleeve) to the next valve. I pug the smaller P port and use the larger one ans the return.

    Now to put my money were my mouth is....
    Last edited by 2310 guy; 06-23-2007 at 04:42 AM.

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