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  1. #1
    Silver Member
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    Default What are all the possibilities....

    Most of you have probably seen my other threads about the FEL bucket on my back hoe not tilting. I took the valves off and had a local shop re-build them. That didnt fix the problem so I took the cylinder off took it apart and everything is good inside the cylinder. I plan to go to the shop on monday and request on site service to correct the problem at no charge to me. If they were to find the problem and it isnt in the valves I would be wiling to pay for their time.

    Here is what I ask of you guys. If the cylinder is good, what other problems could POSSIBLY cause the FEL tilt to not work at all other than the valves. I want to go over everything I can this weekend so that when I go back to them I am 100% sure that the problem resides in the valves that they already re-built.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What are all the possibilities....

    Quote Originally Posted by futuresweets10 View Post
    Here is what I ask of you guys. If the cylinder is good, what other problems could POSSIBLY cause the FEL tilt to not work at all other than the valves. I want to go over everything I can this weekend so that when I go back to them I am 100% sure that the problem resides in the valves that they already re-built.
    If the piston is pushed in (retract) while bucket is dropping down....following is possible...
    1. external leak in gland seal and hose fittings
    2. internal leak in piston seal, which means that the volume the piston rod is displacing, is subject to internal leak some where in the control valve, either the spool or some work port valving.
    3. if piston seal do not leak, the entire capped side volume of cylinder is subject to internal leaking the same way as #2 above. The void of oil on the rod side will then, either be vacuum, air sucked in through gland seal, oil sucked in through spool leakage or through some work port valving.

    Of course there can be several of the above errors, to co-operate, making this fault.

    So if this cylinder piston is retracting, and no external leaks.....there is something leaking in the control valve PERIOD!!!!

    I think J-J's suggestion is OK, about installing a ball valve on the capped side of the cylinder, and shut it off when bucket is flat on the ground. Lift and see what happens. Add a second ball valve (3 way) on the rod side, and do the same test. Take a video over the whole procedure, showing the ball valves and so on....

    That should be proof that control valve is in fault....

  3. #3
    Veteran Member
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    lower part of Md.
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    JD310, ASV RC-100

    Default Re: What are all the possibilities....

    Leave rod end off and try moving cylinder. If rod extends and retracts, valving and cylinders should be ok. Hook rod ends back and see if buckets moves, linkages may be connected wrong. Could you connect a guage at the cylinder ends to see pressures?
    Last edited by tlbuser; 07-30-2010 at 09:00 PM.

  4. #4
    Super Star Member EddieWalker's Avatar
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    Several, all used and abused.

    Default Re: What are all the possibilities....

    How did you determine the cylinder is good? Then thousands of pounds of pressure, a worn seal can hold just fine without pressure, but leak like crazy under pressure. Again, how do you know it's not a seal?

    How much pressure do you have on the line?

    The valve either allows the fluid through, or holds it back. It's real easy to see if it's working with a gauge. Cracking the line and seeing fluid come out is not the same thing as being able to tell if there is 100 psi or 1,000psi. While 100psi will shoot fluid out under pressure for a very long distance, it's not enough pressure to do anything.

    I'm at a loss as to how you are testing the problem and how you are reaching your conclusions. Have you considered hiring sombody to do this for you?

    Good luck
    Eddie

  5. #5
    Silver Member
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    Default Re: What are all the possibilities....

    Quote Originally Posted by EddieWalker View Post
    How did you determine the cylinder is good? Then thousands of pounds of pressure, a worn seal can hold just fine without pressure, but leak like crazy under pressure. Again, how do you know it's not a seal?

    How much pressure do you have on the line?

    The valve either allows the fluid through, or holds it back. It's real easy to see if it's working with a gauge. Cracking the line and seeing fluid come out is not the same thing as being able to tell if there is 100 psi or 1,000psi. While 100psi will shoot fluid out under pressure for a very long distance, it's not enough pressure to do anything.

    I'm at a loss as to how you are testing the problem and how you are reaching your conclusions. Have you considered hiring sombody to do this for you?

    Good luck
    Eddie


    I took the cylinder apart and inspected everything.... I was also told to take one line off and then apply pressure to the other one and see if fluid comes out the open end of the cylinder...

  6. #6
    Super Star Member EddieWalker's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are all the possibilities....

    I've rebuild dozens of cylinders. I can only think of a couple where it was obvious to look at it and know what went wrong. Most of the time, it looks fine.

    What were you looking for and how do you know the seals are fine?

    Eddie

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What are all the possibilities....

    I think the cheapest and easiest test would be what JJ suggested. Keep in mind, do not put full pressure unless you are going to use pressure rated fittings. As Eddie also pointed out, most of time can not see a bad seal.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: What are all the possibilities....

    Quote Originally Posted by EddieWalker View Post
    I've rebuild dozens of cylinders. I can only think of a couple where it was obvious to look at it and know what went wrong. Most of the time, it looks fine.

    What were you looking for and how do you know the seals are fine?

    Eddie
    Well, I guess I dont know they are fine.... I was going off of appearance and feel.... I am going to go buy new seals today and then put the cylinder back together.... If this does not fix the problem the machine is going to the shop.

  9. #9
    J_J
    J_J is offline
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are all the possibilities....

    Quote Originally Posted by futuresweets10 View Post
    I took the cylinder apart and inspected everything.... I was also told to take one line off and then apply pressure to the other one and see if fluid comes out the open end of the cylinder...
    This test will work. Did you do this, and did you pressurize both ports. You have to let the cyl drain all the fluid out of the open port, and then pressurize the other port.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  10. #10
    Elite Member wdchyd's Avatar
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    Kubota B2320

    Default Re: What are all the possibilities....

    Quote Originally Posted by EddieWalker View Post

    I'm at a loss as to how you are testing the problem and how you are reaching your conclusions. Have you considered hiring sombody to do this for you?

    Good luck
    Eddie
    ......
    2010 Kubota B2320 FEL & BH65
    If it ain't fixed don't broke it!

    http://www.tractorbynet.com/content/...-month-wdchyd/

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