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  1. #1
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    Default Advice on repair bill....

    I know many of you have probably formed an opinion about me in the few short weeks that I have been on the board. I haven't done much to make myself look like I have half a brain and Ive said some things in posts that make me look like an idiot. In the end, it really doesn't matter what a bunch of people on a forum think. I have learned A LOT from reading and asking questions and I am grateful for everyone's help.

    I ended up taking the back hoe in yesterday to have the problem looked at by someone who knows more than I. (See this thread if you havent been following my stupidity http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/h...ther-help.html). The shop called me today and said they think they found the problem. There is one small part in both of the work port relief valves that is worn. They quoted me about 260 a piece for the replacement valves and said they can have them in the morning. The guy told me that labor would probably be about $1000, which seemed high to me. I questioned the estimated amount and he told me that they had about 4hrs in it so far and they would have more time putting it back together. Labor is $87 an hour.

    After thinking about the math for a while I got kinda suspicious. I was told they pressure tested the cylinder and then after it looked good they took the work port valves out. He said the top one was PITA to get out. If it took them 4hrs to test the cylinder, get the WP valves off, and pull the WP valves apart and inspect them (which seems high in its self), how is it going to take any where near 4 to get the thing put back together. I know it would take me about 15min to put the work port valves back in because I had them out myself last week. Even if they had 2hrs in it that only 6 hrs, which is only $522.

    I hope he just shot high on the estimated labor to be safe, but if I get a labor bill anywhere near $1000 Im going to have a problem with it. Am I out of line for thinking this is too high? What would you guys do?

  2. #2
    J_J
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    Default Re: Advice on repair bill....

    Everything they did or want to do seems inflated. Should not take more than one hour to tear down a valve, however, they should have connected up test equipment on the machine, and tested, and if the valve showed bad, then pull it and put it on the hyd test bench and do a full test. The cost of the work port relief valve seem high, they could repair, perhaps. If you get the chance, insist on watching the repair and assembly for insurance purpose.

    Have you noticed the hours quoted to do a job, but if you watched them do the actual job, it takes much less, and sometimes they do other jobs while doing yours, and charge full hours for both jobs. If you looked at the computer for the hours worked for that individual, you might see a total hours worked at around 20 or more hours. Impossible, but they pay him, and the shop. There are a lot of crooked people out there and will do anything for that almighty dollar.

    I was quoted 5 hrs to remove the oil pan and replace the oil pump and intake screen on a 351 ford engine, in a van. I watched someone do that same job in less than two hours with all parts on hand.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Advice on repair bill....

    Quote Originally Posted by futuresweets10 View Post
    I know many of you have probably formed an opinion about me in the few short weeks that I have been on the board.
    Love and hate, is two emotions that reflect some sort of care, ignorant people do not care at all.....I love you at the end of these threads....
    I haven't done much to make myself look like I have half a brain and Ive said some things in posts that make me look like an idiot. In the end, it really doesn't matter what a bunch of people on a forum think. I have learned A LOT from reading and asking questions and I am grateful for everyone's help.
    You have been a good student

    I ended up taking the back hoe in yesterday to have the problem looked at by someone who knows more than I. (See this thread if you havent been following my stupidity http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/h...ther-help.html).
    This problem of yours have showed a lot of members/viewers how complex and difficult it can be to come to that stage where you REALLY KNOW and UNDERSTAND hydraulics....it actually takes real hydraulic classes to get the right foundation of knowledge

    The shop called me today and said they think they found the problem. There is one small part in both of the work port relief valves that is worn.
    Thes port relief valves were the only option left for the leakage....
    They quoted me about 260 a piece for the replacement valves and said they can have them in the morning. The guy told me that labor would probably be about $1000, which seemed high to me. I questioned the estimated amount and he told me that they had about 4hrs in it so far and they would have more time putting it back together. Labor is $87 an hour.
    Labor rate is OK...labor rate up to 120$ possible.....
    I can see the trouble shooting take 4 hrs if you don't have the right trouble shooting skills....A good experienced trouble shooter should get into the port RV area within 30 min at the most....testing cylinder should come after the PRV test/check....but it is what it is....suppose you have to accept the 4 hrs...


    After thinking about the math for a while I got kinda suspicious. I was told they pressure tested the cylinder and then after it looked good they took the work port valves out. He said the top one was PITA to get out. If it took them 4hrs to test the cylinder, get the WP valves off, and pull the WP valves apart and inspect them (which seems high in its self), how is it going to take any where near 4 to get the thing put back together. I know it would take me about 15min to put the work port valves back in because I had them out myself last week. Even if they had 2hrs in it that only 6 hrs, which is only $522.
    Agree 100% with you there....good math part from you!!!


    I hope he just shot high on the estimated labor to be safe, but if I get a labor bill anywhere near $1000 Im going to have a problem with it. Am I out of line for thinking this is too high? What would you guys do?
    Tell him that you can order the parts (PRV cartridges) and put them back your self in 15 min....and that you can't accept a total 1000$ bill...I think they are fishing for some extra bucks

    Have them to make a better more detailed quote!! They are definitely trying to cover their a***s....

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Advice on repair bill....

    Quote Originally Posted by J_J View Post
    Everything they did or want to do seems inflated. Should not take more than one hour to tear down a valve, however, they should have connected up test equipment on the machine, and tested, and if the valve showed bad, then pull it and put it on the hyd test bench and do a full test. The cost of the work port relief valve seem high, they could repair, perhaps. If you get the chance, insist on watching the repair and assembly for insurance purpose.

    Have you noticed the hours quoted to do a job, but if you watched them do the actual job, it takes much less, and sometimes they do other jobs while doing yours, and charge full hours for both jobs. If you looked at the computer for the hours worked for that individual, you might see a total hours worked at around 20 or more hours. Impossible, but they pay him, and the shop. There are a lot of crooked people out there and will do anything for that almighty dollar.

    I was quoted 5 hrs to remove the oil pan and replace the oil pump and intake screen on a 351 ford engine, in a van. I watched someone do that same job in less than two hours with all parts on hand.
    Well, auto mechanics go by book time and from what I can tell all heavy equipment goes by actual time. They supposedly tested the valves on the machine and that was their finding. I know first hand the actually removing the valve assembly from the machine is about an 7 hour job, but they didnt remove the assembly, just the work port valves. They claim that parts for the work port valve arent available, just the entire valve.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Advice on repair bill....

    Quote Originally Posted by AKKAMAAN View Post
    Labor rate is OK...labor rate up to 120$ possible.....
    I can see the trouble shooting take 4 hrs if you don't have the right trouble shooting skills....A good experienced trouble shooter should get into the port RV area within 30 min at the most....testing cylinder should come after the PRV test/check....but it is what it is....suppose you have to accept the 4 hrs...


    I honestly think a half hour is slightly low, but 4hrs is high. I told him that I rebuilt the cylinder myself so Im guessing thats why they tested the cylinder before the work port valves. With the way the hoe is there arent really any good spots to hook gauges up to and its difficult to get lines moved to put a T in. With that said, I doubt they really put gauges on anything... I think he used the logic you did in that the work port valves were the only logical place a problem could be. I have a feeling its going to be **** dealing with them.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Advice on repair bill....

    Quote Originally Posted by futuresweets10 View Post
    I honestly think a half hour is slightly low, but 4hrs is high. I told him that I rebuilt the cylinder myself so Im guessing thats why they tested the cylinder before the work port valves. With the way the hoe is there arent really any good spots to hook gauges up to and its difficult to get lines moved to put a T in. With that said, I doubt they really put gauges on anything... I think he used the logic you did in that the work port valves were the only logical place a problem could be. I have a feeling its going to be **** dealing with them.
    After all we go through, I hate to se you ripped off...I just you get all settled just now, and get some "peace" back into your life....Good Luck!!

    Ps....lets know whats the result will be after the shop visit....

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Advice on repair bill....

    Quote Originally Posted by AKKAMAAN View Post
    After all we go through, I hate to se you ripped off...I just you get all settled just now, and get some "peace" back into your life....Good Luck!!

    Ps....lets know whats the result will be after the shop visit....
    I will definitely keep you guys updated on it.... Its the local Cat dealer, so it kinda shocks me that they would try to rip someone off.... Im going to go by in the morning and talk to them and see what they say.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Advice on repair bill....

    When you get in to construction equipment sometimes it is like adding another digit to the bill!!
    If you take with you everything you could learn from this project, advice, opinions, the misery, and some things you probably did not want to hear, you still may get your moneys worth. Education comes in strange ways.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Advice on repair bill....

    Quote Originally Posted by mmurphy View Post
    When you get in to construction equipment sometimes it is like adding another digit to the bill!!
    If you take with you everything you could learn from this project, advice, opinions, the misery, and some things you probably did not want to hear, you still may get your moneys worth. Education comes in strange ways.

    I kinda want to take that stance on it and thats the reason Im not too mad about all the money ive thrown at it trying to fix it with out actually being successful. But that shouldnt be justification for them over charging me

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Advice on repair bill....

    Quote Originally Posted by futuresweets10 View Post
    I kinda want to take that stance on it and thats the reason Im not too mad about all the money ive thrown at it trying to fix it with out actually being successful. But that shouldnt be justification for them over charging me
    Maybe one of the tech's from your of your CAT shop know everything about you now.....he is a member on this forum and know how "vulnerable" your are just now.........I wonder who it can be...

    Agree with mmurphy, it can be 50% up on labor cost at a heavy equipment shop, compared to the auto shop.....and that CAT users manual and tech training do cost some big $$$.....think positive.....like we say in Sweden....jajamensan....

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