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  1. #1
    Gold Member ampa's Avatar
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    Default I need to know if I have this correct ?

    I was goining to use and did buy a 12 volt acutator to raise and lower my new front mounted 48" ATV snowblade,but after realizing I'd not be tapping into my tractors on board hydraulics which is connected with factory steel tubing, I've since removed all of my tractors 3 pt. hitch, as I'll now be using my grey market tractor only in the winter months for snow removal ,another reason was I was having quite a bit of trouble with my PTO leaking fluid out the shaft when I used my finish mower for which I didn't need no more and have recently sold along with my rear graderblade, seemed as long as the PTO wasn't being used never leaked any fluid,anyhow to get to the point,I've decieded to tap into the tractors main on board hydraulics, and from what I've been told or read the only line that can be "Tee"d off is the return line to the tank,so can a rubber hose and two clamps be used to connect from the valve return outlet back to the tractors built in tank in the rear axle/trans,and run the high pressure into the valve then out again from the valve to then to the rear hydraulics as well,I bought a single lever valve that I'll taking back and buyin a double acting valve,then later on if I wanted, add a double acting ram for angling my snowblade, for now I'll just keep the angle part manual,double acting rams are more exspensive than single and can't afford it this year as I'm on old age pention,I need to know if I have setup correct before I start cutting into these lines and do I need to add any other parts than the control and single acting ram,I'll have to measure the lenght of the hoses that I'll need to be made up to reach the front single acting ram/cylinder, I gather they call these single acting cause there is only one inlet,where the double acting has two,one at each end,I really don't know too much about hydraulics but I think I'm slowly learning for an old fellow,anyhow let me know if I have things correct if not,then I'll need help to do it right>>>>>thanks in advance>>>>>Ampa
    Last edited by ampa; 10-07-2010 at 03:12 AM.

  2. #2
    Gold Member Stonehaller's Avatar
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    Case DX45, Kubota L39, Kubota RTV500

    Default Re: I need to know if I have this correct?

    It is normally safe to tee into the return line, however, I would not use hose with hose clamps to hold it on the tubing. This can be dangerous as a clog or kink in a return line can cause it see full system pressure and the clamps would never hold. Use hose rated for system pressure with crimped on fittings even for the return lines.

    In your case, with a single acting cylinder with a double acting valve, you may need a separate tank line. I am assuming your system is open centered. One of the work ports (say port A) of your valve would be piped to the cylinder and the other (say port B) should be piped to tank. With your valve in the center position, system pressure goes in the P port and out the PB port to power other circuits on your tractor, or if the valve is the last in the circuit, PB just goes to tank. When you raise your blade, pressure goes from P to A. When you lower your blade, system pressure goes from P to B and back to tank. The oil coming out of your cylinder goes from A to PB and continues through any other valves you have and finally back to tank. The only force you have to push the oil back to tank when lowering is the weight of the blade. If there is any back pressure in the tank line it will slow down or prevent lowering of the blade. You should make sure that the system pressure being routed back to tank out the B port does not end up sharing a line with oil coming out of the PB somewhere down the line.

    If you must tee into an existing tank line, try to do it as close to the transmission housing as possible to minimize the length of shared line.
    Case DX45 with FEL, Kubota L39TLB, Kubota RTV500

  3. #3
    Gold Member ampa's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need to know if I have this correct?

    I took some time off this project to take some pic's of what I'm tryin' to accomplish here, I must mention,my tractor is a BOLENS/ISEKI G-174 3 cyl. diesel 4x4, I know maybe I should have posted this on the ISEKI greymarket tractor forum,but this issue is on the hydraulics and thought I'd get a faster response posting it here, anyhow,you can and will be able to zoom in on all these pics for better close up detail, I must be honest and tell you that I'm tryin' my very best to understand my tractors hydraulics,I can and had any issues operating the single hydraulic system on the my tractor, ,but to connect them up and understand what your tryin' to explain to me is a kinda' like a huge question mark ???, you mentioned PB,for which I believe means Power Beyond, so does this mean back to the rear on board 3 pt. hitch hydraulics?,please take a moment to veiw these pics that I have posted and if you could mark or draw then post a diagram of what goes where,and the proper connecting material or lets say fitting/hose/rubber/crimped e.t.c. that must be used to properly complete this setup issue of mine,once I get this info all straight in my mind I'm quite sure if I need ever have to do this kinda' of thing again then it should all be a piece of cake, "please note" the valve is only temperary mounted with 2 slot screws 2 wing nuts,I will change these out to 1/4" hex bolts later on, I will also be reinstalling the grab handle closer to the edge of the fender as I had to remove it to mount the valve, this tractor as you can see has very little space to install anything after market,but I think I chose the correct and best spot for my new valve control,the outside lever will control the up and down action for the snowblade,the inside lever which has been plugged off will control the Left and Right angle when I have the money to buy the double acting ram/cylinder,the side inlet marked with a "P" I believe is where I plumb in the High Pressure line,the other side marked with a "T" I believe is where I Tee it back into the tractors tank, the hydraulic pump is on the other side and runs off the engines timing gears,and was working excellent before I removed the lever,(note the shaft sticking out the small round hole is where the original lever use to be and bein' I don't intend to ever have to use the built in rear hydraulics again,think maybe I could just plug or block this section off and make this connection setup much easier ? "just a thought" as you can see I'm also a little crambed in tight here, as there really isn't too much room in this Townhouse garage >>>>>>>Thank you ever so much StoneHaller for your sincere input,take care Ampa
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -tractors-board-hydraulics-jpg   -close-up-double-lever-valve   -mounted-double-lever-valve-jpg   -under-belly-mount-jpg   -powerblade-jpg  

    Last edited by ampa; 10-07-2010 at 03:30 AM.

  4. #4
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: I need to know if I have this correct?

    If I remember right, when using a SA cyl with a DA valve, you connect the pressure work hose to the A port and plug the B port. The reason for this is, that you are only applying fluid to the A port.

    If you use a DA cyl and are using it as an SA cyl, you do the same thing, but add a breather vent for the cyl.

    Some SA cyl may have a spring return but most rely on the load to close the cyl.

    If your valve has the PB sleeve installed, and you plan to use it to a valve down stream, then the cyl work fluid will flow out the return port only, If you plug the PB port, then all fluid will go to tank 3pt and then tank.

    I don't believe you said you wanted to isolate the 3pt hyd, so the fluid will still flow through the system.

    All cyl fluid from most any valve flow out the tank port.

    Instead of running another hose to tank, just use the hyd line that is there, even though you said you will never use again, The fluid will exit the valve out the T port and flow through the 3pt, and then to tank.
    Last edited by J_J; 10-07-2010 at 10:19 AM.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  5. #5
    Gold Member ampa's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need to know if I have this correct?

    Hi J_J,these greymarket tractors hydraulics have no external tank,as I believe since the tractor calls for hydraulic type fluid in trans/rear end drive that the whole inside cast iron casting becomes a huge hydraulic tank, maybe someone with more knowlage on these tractors than I that can confirm this,I know from readin' hydraulic questions answered from your end ,that your the man that has a lot of knowlage on hydraulics period,one thing J_J,with me is when you use abbreviations,for instance the only thing I know is that PB stands for Power Beyond,I'll be quite honest and athough it's not something I'm proud of is, that I never made it past grade 6 as a youngter, besides this, my mother started me @ age 6 instead of 5,so I was always a year behind all the other kids,I lost interest @ school, after failing a few grades,therefore @ age 16 went out and joined the local labor work force and never looked back, anyhow that's the way of life so the sayin' goes, TBN is where I get a chance to upgrade my lacking in education,thank you ever so much J_J for your sincere input.>>>>>take care>>>>Ampa
    Last edited by ampa; 10-07-2010 at 01:19 PM.

  6. #6
    Gold Member Stonehaller's Avatar
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    Case DX45, Kubota L39, Kubota RTV500

    Default Re: I need to know if I have this correct?

    Shame on me. Don't try to write a technical answer when you are half asleep. I was trying say do not connect a tank and PB line together and made no sense.

    Anyway, are there any other hydraulics on the tractor? Is there a mid point lift for a mower?

    If there is only the three point and you are never going to use it again, then you may be able to just disconnect the exiting line from the pump to the 3 point and run a new line from the outlet of the pump to the P (pressure) port on your valve. You need to figure out where the system relief valve is first to ensure you do not by pass it. You should really ask about this in the Iseki forum as I am not familiar with this tractor.

    The T (tank) port on your valve needs to go back to the transmission housing which is the hydraulic reservoir or tank.
    Case DX45 with FEL, Kubota L39TLB, Kubota RTV500

  7. #7
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: I need to know if I have this correct?

    ampa,

    First, let me start out by saying that all you have to do is ask a question, and there are lot of knowledgeable people here that probably can answer the question.

    You wanted to know about PB. That is an abbreviation for Power Beyond, meaning that is an outlet for the hyd fluid as part of the circuit from pump to tank. It could have low pressure flowing through the valve, or high pressure. Essentially, it feeds low pressure fluid through the circuit if all valves are in neutral. If a valve downstream is activated, the fluid in the valve with PB becomes high pressure fluid, and stays high as long as work is being done. . Even if you have it , you don't have to use it. If you choose to use it, you purchase a PB sleeve to screw n that port, and it blocks off certain galleries for the fluid. That port is designed for high pressure, whereas the tank port normally feeds the used fluid to the 3pt and tank.

    I would recommend looking through reading material as found on the internet, There are also hydraulic manuals on CD's, and there is You Tube. You can probably get the fastest answer here on TBN. Very few people start out knowing about hydraulics, unless your dad owned a hyd shop and made you learn it. Most of the people here that know , wanted to know, and did their research and took courses, or had military hyd related service. You can teach yourself as much as you want to know, but most of us want to know how to keep our tractors running, and in knowing one tractors hydraulics, can relate to similar problems to other tractors. Therefore, when you ask a question, state what tractor and model you have , the trouble you are having , and what has been done so far. My answers are my own, and some others might disagree, but anyway use what you can and if need be, verify with some one else.
    Last edited by J_J; 10-07-2010 at 09:55 PM.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  8. #8
    Gold Member ampa's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need to know if I have this correct?

    Your a good man J_J on hydraulics I trust your answers right on the money,I just needed to know what the abbreviations meant,the two young fellows in the hydraulic deptment at Princess Auto, know me and know I'm tryin' to install this snowblade using my tractors hydraulics, I thank you once again J_J and I do appreciate your help, take care>>>Ampa

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