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  1. #11
    Platinum Member rjkobbeman's Avatar
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    Kubota M8540HD-12 2010

    Default Re: What's OK to substitute for univeral hydraulic oil in a pinch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    yep.. it's one of those.. just about any oil is better than no oil.. except that the heavy stuff is no good due to cavitation.. mind you.. 2-3 g of gear oil into 8-10 g of utf oil probably wouldn't bring the overall viscosity up a whole lot.. but I wouldn't want to do it..

    soundguy
    I would suspect the heavy stuff (gear oil) would not blend-in with the lighter stuff real easy. Seems to me it would stay somewhat separated until it went through the pump... then the pump would feel the full force of 90 weight... as apposed to a mixture.

    I know this was just a hypothetical, but it does raise the issue that having spare hydraulic fluid around is just as important (or more so) as having regular oil around.

    I keep a couple of gallons of SUDT around... but I also have the luxury of being down the road (3 miles) from my dealer. I don't take my tractor out of the area too far, so this is not a concern for me.
    Kubota M8540HD12-1 (2010), R4s with 3 Sets of Weights, 2 Remotes (SCD & FD), Rear Work Light and Down Exhaust
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  2. #12
    Super Star Member
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    Aug 2001
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    Upper Midwest USA
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    JD 4300, JD X485 JD 4x2 Gator, JD 425, JD455

    Default Re: What's OK to substitute for univeral hydraulic oil in a pinch?

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandTractor View Post
    Recall this is a hypothetical question. Sure it is always nice to have extra supplies on hand but my tractor is on an island so I cannot pop down to the local Walmart if I run out. In fact I do have an extra 5 gallons of HST oil on hand but was interested in thoughts regarding motor oil as a substitute in a crunch.

    thanks to all who replied.
    All the more reason to have the correct oil on hand. That is a hypothetical solution.

    It would have to be a serious pinch for me to pollute the existing oil with something else. Just means a large quantity of the right oil when changing it all out as one wouldn't want to run long with mixed oil in the HST. IMO.

  3. #13
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: What's OK to substitute for univeral hydraulic oil in a pinch?

    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    All the more reason to have the correct oil on hand. That is a hypothetical solution.

    It would have to be a serious pinch for me to pollute the existing oil with something else. Just means a large quantity of the right oil when changing it all out as one wouldn't want to run long with mixed oil in the HST. IMO.
    i agree.. unless the stuff I contaminated it with was similar universal oil.. I'd want to change it. heck.. i'd likely change it out even if i added atf to it. and for sure engine or hyd oil if there were gear boxes involved.

    on gear oil.. might have to thin that with some diesel first... tis' what ya did in the old days to get 80w out of 90w and kerosene..

    soundguy

  4. #14
    Platinum Member
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    Thumb, Mich

    Default Re: What's OK to substitute for univeral hydraulic oil in a pinch?

    FWIW - the early hydraulic oils, after 20W, were basically 10W30 engine oils with anti-foam and anti-squack additives, so you guys are on the right track.


    Also, adding to SG's comment, in the real north kerosene was used to thin transmission and hydrualic oil. Guys would have barrels on hand, one for "summer" oil and one for "winter" oil. Nice not to have to do that anymore.
    The Opti-Mist

  5. #15
    Gold Member kattywumpus's Avatar
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    Sep 2004
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    Southern Maine
    Tractor
    Kioti DK40SE with Cab.

    Default Re: What's OK to substitute for univeral hydraulic oil in a pinch?

    IT, when Kioti was on site I asked the engineer about the hydraulic fluid. I stated I was having a hard time matching up locally available hydraulic fluid to what was recommended in the manual. His responds was: "You're near a tractor supply store correct?" I said "yes, about 3 miles away". He said "Just purchase TSC's Traveller® Premium Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid. We (Kioti) have used that fluid during the assemble of the tractors. The only reason we not using it now is XXXX store open beside our plant and we purchase from them now". I think "them/XXXX" was NAPA but I'm not positive. So I have 5 gallons bucket in with the tractor now. I have used it several times already to top off the reservoir when the backhoe hoses were leaking. His only other recommendation was during the winter when it really cold let the tractor warm up for 5 minutes before driving it. He indicated if you could not wait the 5 minute change out the fluid with a low temperature fluid John Deere has. Sorry, I don’t have the John Deere fluid name or model with me.

  6. #16
    Gold Member kattywumpus's Avatar
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    Southern Maine
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    Kioti DK40SE with Cab.

    Default Re: What's OK to substitute for univeral hydraulic oil in a pinch?

    Also during my hydraulic fluid research for my wood splitter I found the attached chart. I have found it to be very usefully. There is a color version of this chart on the Internet but I could not find it today. Even if a oil matches in viscosity you may not want the included additives or the base oil type. The attached links are also a few of good sites about oil / lubrication I found.
    Determining Hydraulic Fluid Viscosity Requirements
    ISO Viscosity Grades
    All Synthetics Group...Industrial Lubricant and Compressor Oil Cross-Reference Chart 1 (A - J)


    Interesting side note, when I found the specifications for Kioti recommend hydraulic oils I found fluids' viscosity did not match up precisely on the chart.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #17
    Gold Member
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    Default Re: What's OK to substitute for univeral hydraulic oil in a pinch?

    You won't harm anything by adding regular engine oil in a pinch. I'm not recommending mixing different types of oils as being good practice, but the simple truth is that there aren't too many hydraulic components on any type of equipment that are brand/model specific.

    Hydraulic manufacturers like Vickers, Parker, Barnes, Rexroth, etc. all supply components to tractor/equipment manufacturers. You can get a tag number off of a pump or valve assembly and look it up on the manufacturer's website. They'll list a range of suitable fluids....not one and one only. Some stuff we have will use ATF in a system, while another piece of equipment with the same pump with be factory-filled with hydraulic oil.

    If mixing a quart, (or a few quarts), of a different type of oil resulted in damage, we'd have a lot more stuff to fix than we do. If a customer breaks an easy-to-replace hose or fitting a couple of hundred miles away, (in other words, they made the call to repair it themselves), they rarely consult the manual before adding oil back into the system.

    Then there are all of the rental hydraulic attachments we have to consider. The last guy to use the hydraulic breaker/auger/snowblower/whatever may have had it attached to his skidsteer that's full of UTF. The next guy to rent it may have a regular Bobcat filled with 10-30 engine oil. Whatever oil that sits in the attachment and hoses once it gets de-coupled isn't flushed before the unit goes out, nor is it flushed when it comes back.

    Once again, not recommending it as good practice, but there are much more important considerations to worry about....such as keeping dirt, debris, and water out of the systems. In some rare instances, you may come across two types of oil that may have some compatibility issue(s), but most of the time....it's simply not a problem. It's especially not a problem if you follow the equipment manufacturer's recommendations and change out the hydraulic oil anyway at specified intervals.

    As far as "flushing" a system goes, I've seen it done quite a few times by folks that are doing it via a method that's more "feel good" than it is effective. In other words, unless you plan on buying enough oil and filters to replace the entire system's volume, and then doing the process at least a couple of times, you're spinning your wheels.


  8. #18
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: What's OK to substitute for univeral hydraulic oil in a pinch?

    After reading this information, I may rethink about mixing fluids. Good info.

    Managing the Risk of Mixing Lubricating Oils
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  9. #19
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    Prudence Island, RI
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J_J
    After reading this information, I may rethink about mixing fluids. Good info.

    Managing the Risk of Mixing Lubricating Oils
    The article is interesting and worrisome but unfortunately it is more of a generalist journal piece than a technical guide. How does one determine whether Rotella added to universal tractor fluid from TDC is a problem or not. For that matter the article makes it sound like even switching from an earlier generation product like Rotella to Rotella T could be an issue which I find hard to believe. The article reads a little bit like some generic health foods piece listing a variety of nutritional hazards but not being specific enough to act as a road map. Still, food for thought.

  10. #20
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: What's OK to substitute for univeral hydraulic oil in a pinch?

    Here is a fluid compatibility chart for use with seals/o-rings etc.


    Marco Rubber | Fluid Compatibility Guide
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

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