Adding 3rd function valve, top link, side link, and one extra. How???

Piston · Jan 3, 2011

I had a million questions about hydraulics prior to searching for about a million different things, and learned a LOT over the last couple days. I still have some questions but I THINK I'm starting to get a basic understanding of it.

I am in the process of buying a L4610 which currently doesn't have any hydraulics in the rear. I want to plumb it so I can eventually add a top link, side link, and extra valve for say hydraulic scarifiers on a box blade. This way I will have the top n tilt function and hydraulic up/down scarifiers for grading and leveling.

I also want to be able to use my log splitter. I know for this I will need a power beyond kit. I actually now realize that power beyond is a lot more basic than I thought, but when combined with the 3 valves I will need I'm not totally sure how it works?

I believe I can tap into the PB from my FEL and plumb that to my new bank of 3 valves. I think I will need the first 2 valves to have a PB sleeve as well and will I also need the 3rd valve to have a PB sleeve? I believe so because this way it will complete the loop back to the FEL right? I read that the PB port from my FEL is what operates my 3pt.

Assuming I'm correct, which most likely I'm not

, I will need 3 open center type valves with a PB sleeve in all of them? Are these called 4 way valves?

Now if I have these three valves, where or how do I plumb in my PB for my log splitter? I'm not sure about this.

Also, to complicate things further, and maybe I should wait to ask this but I may as well get it all out, I want to add a grapple. I have read many threads on adding a 3rd function valve for a grapple and I think I want to go with the electric over hydraulic valve (probably from WR Long because I've read a lot about them) and this way I could operate the grapple with the toggle switch on my FEL lever.

So to recap, so far I want to add the three valves in the back for Top n Tilt, and an extra for either hydraulic scarifiers or the log splitter, depending on what attachment I have on. In addition, I want the 3rd function valve up front.

I want to do this the right way and not jury rigged or anything like that. I also want to learn more about how my hydraulics work so this will be a good first project for me for my new tractor.

Is it possible for me to use the FEL lever to operate the Top and Tilt, and then the toggle switch to operate the hydralic scarifiers? Or is this a good or bad idea?

I like the idea of the grapple on the toggle rather than one of the valves in the rear (I know more $ but for now it sounds good

)

I have read a lot on the power beyond and looked at some drawings that people have posted and it has helped a lot, but I still have a lot of learning to do, I'm pretty confused as I really don't know anything about hydraulics, although because of all the prior posts I have learned a great deal considering what I knew before.

I haven't seen any threads on adding 3 valves in the rear AND a 3rd function valve upfront, I apologize if it is already there and you can point me in the right direction.

I hope I'm at least on the right track and not completely wrong with what I'm thinking. Thanks for any help you can give me, without this site I wouldn't even know it's possible to do what I want to do, you guys are a huge help and I respect that. :thumbsup:

J_J · Jan 3, 2011

For the front hyd, just add a diverter valve for a grapple.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-5117-A&catname=hydraulic

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-5117-A.pdf

kennyd · Jan 3, 2011

Piston, I will address a few points for you in detail...

I believe I can tap into the PB from my FEL and plumb that to my new bank of 3 valves. I think I will need the first 2 valves to have a PB sleeve as well and will I also need the 3rd valve to have a PB sleeve? I believe so because this way it will complete the loop back to the FEL right? I read that the PB port from my FEL is what operates my 3pt.

You only need one "3-spool" valve, it will only have one PB port. Here is one example: Surplus Center - 3 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB31BBB5C1 DA VALVE

The PB line comes from the FEL valve's PB (also called BYD) port and now currently feeds the 3PH. You would remove this line and place a new one from that port to the IN ports on the new valve. The PB/BYD port on the new valve would connect back to the tractor where the line you removed was.

I also want to be able to use my log splitter. I know for this I will need a power beyond kit. I actually now realize that power beyond is a lot more basic than I thought, but when combined with the 3 valves I will need I'm not totally sure how it works?

You can use the line that feeds the 3PH after you install the new valve, basically you would have a QD (quick disconnect) on the PB port of the new valve so you can "plug" your splitter into the line for constant flow.

Assuming I'm correct, which most likely I'm not , I will need 3 open center type valves with a PB sleeve in all of them? Are these called 4 way valves?

One valve...One PB port, 3 spools. You can also look at the Prince SV series "stack valves" and custom build you own valve. Yes, 3-position, 4-way, spring return to center spools.

Now if I have these three valves, where or how do I plumb in my PB for my log splitter? I'm not sure about this.

I think I answered that for you?

Also, to complicate things further, and maybe I should wait to ask this but I may as well get it all out, I want to add a grapple. I have read many threads on adding a 3rd function valve for a grapple and I think I want to go with the electric over hydraulic valve (probably from WR Long because I've read a lot about them) and this way I could operate the grapple with the toggle switch on my FEL lever.

The WR Long is a good choice, but since you will be doing all the other work you can just get a solenoid valve and plumb it in yourself while you everything else apart. It would go like this:

PB of the FEL valve to IN of the solenoid valve
OUT of the solenoid valve to IN of the new valve (The solenoid valves do not have PB ports)
PB port (with QD) of the new valve to the tractor 3PH
OUT of the new valve to the tank, it can be Tee'd with the one from the FEL valve.

Is it possible for me to use the FEL lever to operate the Top and Tilt, and then the toggle switch to operate the hydralic scarifiers? Or is this a good or bad idea?

Possible yes, practical no. You can add a joystick to the SV series valves to control two spools though, and the third can be just a regular lever.

Clear as mud?:thumbsup:

J_J · Jan 3, 2011

Someone said this. Quote: [ You can use the line that feeds the 3PH after you install the new valve, basically you would have a QD (quick disconnect) on the PB port of the new valve so you can "plug" your splitter into the line for constant flow.]

I would not recommend this. Should you separate the the QD coupler on the PB port, the pump will go to full pressure, and if the relief valve does not catch the sudden increase in pressure, you may destroy your pump.

I would suggest two QD's off one of the stack valves, possibly one with a detent to keep the valve open for the log splitter. This outlet could also power an attachment with a hyd motor, such as a post hole digger, and will even have reverse.

teg · Jan 3, 2011

You can look at what I did: Adding rear/mid remotes on L2800 for grapple & TnT

I would suggest getting the 4 spool valve for not much more money. For $40 extra, http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7864&catname=hydraulic
You can always just plug one or two until you need it...

The electric of hydraulic button is nice... nice and pricey.

The grapple is great, if you have the need for one.

Piston · Jan 3, 2011

J.J.
For the diverter valve, I understand it as there will be a button on my loader joystick, that when I want to operate the grapple I push that, and it will divert the flow to the grapple dual acting cylinder from whatever other function i'm tapped into?

Is it better to use the up/down hydraulics of the FEL to operate the grapple, or the curl function to operate the grapple? Or is this just completely personal preference?

KennyD,
WOW, thank you for the excellent description, you cleared up a LOT for me that I was still confused about. You even answered one my questions that I haven't asked yet, which was going to be what type of valve do I use and where do I find it.

Regarding the QD coming out of the PB from the valve for the log splitter that you suggested....I assume I would have to shut the tractor off each time I plug/unplug the splitter? If not it sounds like when I disconnected the QD to plug in the splitter, during the time nothing was plugged in, all the pressure would build up? Is this the correct way to do this?

Regarding the solenoid valve, you mentioned I would go from the FEL PB to the IN of the solenoid, then the OUT and so on.... I'm assuming the supply and return lines from the grapple tie into the same solenoid valve right? So in other words there are 4 ports in the solenoid valve, 2 for the grapple, and the other two for the main IN and OUT ports?

Some of the most helpful posts I read on hydraulics were your posts, so thanks again.

J.J. I guess you answered my question about the best way to power the splitter, I like that idea better. Is is fairly straightforward to do? How do I connect 2 QD from one of the stack valves?
Does it matter which stack valve I use for that?
Where do I find a 4 spool (1 extra for the heck of it

), 4 way, open center with PB sleave valve with a detent?
I like the idea of the detent for the splitter. Would this work the same if I decide to get a backhoe in the future?

TEG,
Excellent point, I guess there is no reason not to get the 4 way for the little extra money, thanks for the idea. :thumbsup:

Thanks for your help guys, I still have lot to learn and I'll bother you with more questions

but you've already helped tremendously.

I'll check your link now TEG.

kennyd · Jan 3, 2011

You are welcome Piston...Here are more answers:

Regarding the QD coming out of the PB from the valve for the log splitter that you suggested....I assume I would have to shut the tractor off each time I plug/unplug the splitter? If not it sounds like when I disconnected the QD to plug in the splitter, during the time nothing was plugged in, all the pressure would build up? Is this the correct way to do this?

Yes, that is correct. The PB line see's the full flow from the pump whenever the tractor is running, so it must be OFF when you undo this coupling. If you bought a factory backhoe, it would be plumbed the same way, except there would be just two hoses at the rear rather than a valve.These two hoses would be unhooked to plug in the backhoe, and plugged together when the backhoe is dismounted. Again...this is how Kubota, John Deere, and other OEM's do it...as far as hydraulics go-there is no difference between a backhoe and a logsplitter.

Regarding the solenoid valve, you mentioned I would go from the FEL PB to the IN of the solenoid, then the OUT and so on.... I'm assuming the supply and return lines from the grapple tie into the same solenoid valve right? So in other words there are 4 ports in the solenoid valve, 2 for the grapple, and the other two for the main IN and OUT ports?

I made no mention of the "work ports" to keep things simple. There are indeed 4 ports on the valve-IN, OUT and the two "work port" that would go to a cylinder on a grapple or plow.

Some of the most helpful posts I read on hydraulics were your posts, so thanks again.

Thank you very much. I try to explain things in generic terms to help you guys understand. I also try to give details and real life justification with my answers, not just internet links that can be confusing.

J.J. I guess you answered my question about the best way to power the splitter, I like that idea better. Is is fairly straightforward to do? How do I connect 2 QD from one of the stack valves?
Does it matter which stack valve I use for that?
Where do I find a 4 spool (1 extra for the heck of it), 4 way, open center with PB sleave valve with a detent?
I like the idea of the detent for the splitter. Would this work the same if I decide to get a backhoe in the future?

Well, it's no secret that I have JJ on ignore so I don't have to read his posts...but I did read this one unfortunately. Please re-read my reply above, there is no reason to tie up a valve to run a splitter or a backhoe since they both need a constant supply of oil because they both already have their own valves. This is just my opinion, it may very well be worth what you paid for it.:laughing:

TEG,
Excellent point, I guess there is no reason not to get the 4 way for the little extra money, thanks for the idea.

4 spool, not 4-way:thumbsup: The only downside to this is real estate, there is not a whole lot of room on these tractors to mount valves-just be sure to check the dimensions and maybe make a cardboard template to see where it would fit.

For the diverter valve, I understand it as there will be a button on my loader joystick, that when I want to operate the grapple I push that, and it will divert the flow to the grapple dual acting cylinder from whatever other function i'm tapped into?

Is it better to use the up/down hydraulics of the FEL to operate the grapple, or the curl function to operate the grapple? Or is this just completely personal preference?

99.9% of diverters are plumbed on the dump/curl circuit. It won't be any less money to use this versus a regular solenoid valve and since you will have it a opened up you might as well go for the real deal.

J_J · Jan 3, 2011

If you order the stack valves, you select or choose the functions you want. One of those can be detent for the splitter. You might have trouble finding a good place for the valve so it is convenient for you as you sit on the tractor. For the splitter valve, a couple fittings off the work ports and to the QD's. One male and one female QD. When not using the the valve for the log splitter, you can make a short hose and connect the two QD's together as a safety. Connect the male QD as the hyd supply in the detent position. The female QD will be the return from the log splitter.

Four spool valve. Build it the way you want, select the end pieces and bolts. It is not going to be cheap.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9SV-4-Y&catname=hydraulic

J_J · Jan 3, 2011

There are many ways to do things, so just take all the advise and use whatever.

The instructions for the diverter valve is the best way to operate the grapple, and you do use the curl circuit. A simple switch will operate the grapple, along with your joystick FEL valve.

Willl · Jan 3, 2011

There are many ways to do things, so just take all the advise and use whatever.

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It fits every category.

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Ideally, my extra add-on valve(s) would have all the disconnects right next to my implements and all the handles right next to my 'hand'.

Got something like that ?