Ok, this is my first post. I have been unable to find any info on the web about how much my Ford 841 will lift at the 3pt hitch. I would really like to know what is the pump flow rate and pressure and if there is any way to upgrade it to a larger pump or higher flow rate. I am mostly wanting the added power to lift large square bales with a scissor lift. The bales weigh 1100-1200 lbs. I believe my tractor will already lift this but I want to add a scissor lift to stack 2-3 high and it is my understanding that it will require more power to work the scissor action. I realize I will have to make sure their is enough weight on the front of the tractor. Currently I am moving 1000 lb round bales with no front weights and having no problems with the tractor. I would very much like Soundguys input on this (especially the pump output part). Thanks in advance for your knowledge.
Can you upgrade a Ford 841 3 point to lift more
- Thread starter tdove
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J_J
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If it has a FEL, have you checked to see if the PRV is set correctly. If no FEL, then there is a relief at the 3pt that you can check and maybe set if adjustable. You really need to know the max psi for the pump. Reliefs are usually set lower about 50 to 100 psi below the pump max pressure.
3pt lift limit------About 1250 lbs.
Hydraulics:
Type: open center
Capacity: 2 gal [7.6 L]
Pressure: 2000 psi [137.9 bar]
Total flow: 4 gpm [15.1 lpm]
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/2/3/239-ford-841.html
3pt lift limit------About 1250 lbs.
Hydraulics:
Type: open center
Capacity: 2 gal [7.6 L]
Pressure: 2000 psi [137.9 bar]
Total flow: 4 gpm [15.1 lpm]
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/2/3/239-ford-841.html
That is good information. Is there any way to put an aftermarket or bigger pump to get more flow than 4 gpm? I do not have an FEL and am just interested in the 3 pt. I wonder is the 1250 at the pins or 24" behind. I am guessing behind. It seems like that is a pretty weak number for this size of tractor. Thanks.
whodat526
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i dont believe you will need a bigger pump because you basicly or only wonting to use a fork lift mast on the back right
J_J
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You could install a tee in the pressure line from the pump and connect a 3000 psi hyd gage where you can read it, to monitor and trouble shoot the hyd system.
More pressure is what you will need for more lift power, but you may be limited by the construction of the 3pt lift cyl and it's ability to carry the extra weight. The relief valve might have limited adjustments also.
You would have to ask yourself if providing more pressure would wreak the 3pt system.
Theoretically, a larger cyl and more pressure would provide more lifting power.
More pressure is what you will need for more lift power, but you may be limited by the construction of the 3pt lift cyl and it's ability to carry the extra weight. The relief valve might have limited adjustments also.
You would have to ask yourself if providing more pressure would wreak the 3pt system.
Theoretically, a larger cyl and more pressure would provide more lifting power.
jinman
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I'm going to suggest that you don't even attempt to raise the pressure or flow from your standard hydraulic pump. The most likely result of raising pressure will be:
1. You'll blow seals and have to repair any/all of the pump/3PH/plumbing.
2. You'll overstress the 3PH lift and bend/break the lift arms or the jackshaft sector.
When auxiliary hydraulics are needed on a tractor similar to yours, a self-contained system is often added that is run off a pump mounted on the front of the tractor. Industrial models with loaders have a Pump and hydraulic reservoir installed in front of the radiator.
If you need to lift more weight, you might consider a bale buggy towed behind your 841. I believe you could use your current hydraulic system with a remote adapter to operate a SA cylinder on a bale buggy.
If you want to run that scissor lift, I think you have to realize that you are exceeding the capability of your 841 and go to a newer/larger tractor with more modern features. You can spend a lot of time and money and end up with a problematic 841 instead of a productive machine. I suggest that you don't make great changes to the design of your 841. You'll likely devalue it if you do.:thumbdown:
1. You'll blow seals and have to repair any/all of the pump/3PH/plumbing.
2. You'll overstress the 3PH lift and bend/break the lift arms or the jackshaft sector.
When auxiliary hydraulics are needed on a tractor similar to yours, a self-contained system is often added that is run off a pump mounted on the front of the tractor. Industrial models with loaders have a Pump and hydraulic reservoir installed in front of the radiator.
If you need to lift more weight, you might consider a bale buggy towed behind your 841. I believe you could use your current hydraulic system with a remote adapter to operate a SA cylinder on a bale buggy.
If you want to run that scissor lift, I think you have to realize that you are exceeding the capability of your 841 and go to a newer/larger tractor with more modern features. You can spend a lot of time and money and end up with a problematic 841 instead of a productive machine. I suggest that you don't make great changes to the design of your 841. You'll likely devalue it if you do.:thumbdown:
Guesseral
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The pump on your 841 is the same pump that fits that ford body style from 1953 jubilee all the way up to the ford 4000 old body style I think that was arould 1963 when they changed but I am not completely sure on the year. correction the 1953 jubilee came with a different pump from the factory but the pump you have is the replacement and finding a 53 with the old style pump could be a challange. The point is, is that was basicly a bullet proof hydraulic system the biggest change they made to it over the years was the hydraulic manifold that connects the pump to the rear end via hydraulic tubs that ran through the transmission, the jubilee started out with all exposed tubes, and the rear hydraulic plate with the piston was enlarged when they changed the rear axle housing.
I think your best bet as stated previously is to leave the on board hydraulics alone and install the pump on the front of the motor as they did when a FEL was installed. What is there is designed to operate the 3ph and limited remote hydraulic devices. I can't give you a lot of technical jargon like some others can but I have had many of these apart and rebuilt several of them, I have the same tractor and a jubilee. These tractors were way over build way back then, but they didn't have the type of equipment to operate that is offered today. If the hydraulic pump could operate larger hydraulic equipment like you want I think they would have used it to operate FEL instead of installing a pump on the front of the motors like they did. Oh in answer to your question no I don't think they ever offered a larger hydraulic pump to fit that style of tractor.
Now lets see how many holes these guys can shoot in all that. I just have a feeling it comming. But this is just my oppinion.
I think your best bet as stated previously is to leave the on board hydraulics alone and install the pump on the front of the motor as they did when a FEL was installed. What is there is designed to operate the 3ph and limited remote hydraulic devices. I can't give you a lot of technical jargon like some others can but I have had many of these apart and rebuilt several of them, I have the same tractor and a jubilee. These tractors were way over build way back then, but they didn't have the type of equipment to operate that is offered today. If the hydraulic pump could operate larger hydraulic equipment like you want I think they would have used it to operate FEL instead of installing a pump on the front of the motors like they did. Oh in answer to your question no I don't think they ever offered a larger hydraulic pump to fit that style of tractor.
Now lets see how many holes these guys can shoot in all that. I just have a feeling it comming. But this is just my oppinion.
J_J
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If by chance he could increase the pressure by 500 psi, that would add about 1571 lbs of force to a 2 in bore cyl.
Maybe something like this.
http://www.edwards-equip.com/SiteDocuments/14-tt48-49-413.1010a.pdf
http://www.edwards-equip.com/Content/Forklifts.aspx
Maybe something like this.
http://www.edwards-equip.com/SiteDocuments/14-tt48-49-413.1010a.pdf
http://www.edwards-equip.com/Content/Forklifts.aspx
Guesseral
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Yea that would be nice. But I just don't think they ever made a bigger pump for those tractors. I could be wrong and I am quite often. I do remember seeing some pumps for these tractors something like Remand pumps but I think they are just remaunfactured stock pumps and they are really expensive.
I do remember seeing one of those type of lifts on that style of ford before but I really don't know if it was operated from the on board or if it had a pump on the front because I never looked.
Well I've got to go for now. Will be interested to see if anyone comes up with anything else. Talk later.
I do remember seeing one of those type of lifts on that style of ford before but I really don't know if it was operated from the on board or if it had a pump on the front because I never looked.
Well I've got to go for now. Will be interested to see if anyone comes up with anything else. Talk later.