Need a pto log splitter guru for advice J_J?

[Car Doc]

I have a 15 year old 5hp 20 ton Brave gas powered splitter and it still works as good as the day I bought it but I am thinking that turning it into a 3pt style will afford me easier firewood seasons where I can have it on the tractor instead of wagging it behind another pickup or trailer like I have done for years.

I will simply un-bolt the beam and cylinder/valve assy off as a unit and buy a new tank and plum the 2 hyd lines in and make a 3 pt mount simple as it can be made. And use a pump attached directly to the pto like my backhoe is.

My plan was simple up until this morning up till I checked my pto direction of rotation and see its clockwise and all 2 stage splitter pumps are cw so I need a ccw to work if I go straight onto the pto. I can build a jack shaft arrangement and turn a splitter pump around and run it with a chain and sprockets but thats more engineering and mass than I really want if its not necessary

My question is does a pto pump even need 2 stages my tractor is 38 pto hp surely a ccw 16 gpm (or higher/lower???) high pressure pump which is readily available and about the same price as the splitter pumps would work or am I looking at this wrong?

thanks in advance for any help

 

[J_J]

These are the options as I see them.

1. If you want to use the two stage pump, you would have to use a gear box to increase the 540 to about 3500/3600 rpm. A single stage gear increase will change the output shaft direction.

A side by side arrangement with belt /pulley, or sprocket and chain.

2. Find a hyd pump that will run at 540 rpm and provide pressure at 2500 to 3000 psi.
You tractor can operate a hyd pump pumping about 15 GPM's at 3000 psi.

Here is a 3000 psi pump that would work.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-1901-D&catname=hydraulic

3. A PTO pump by prince, but they are high dollar. They run at about 2200 psi.

A 4 in cyl will produce about 15 ton, at 3000 psi. The GPM's available will determine the speed of operation.

There are also fast extend valves that will give speed improvement.

How many GPM on your Yanmar?

 

[Car Doc]

These are the options as I see them.

1. If you want to use the two stage pump, you would have to use a gear box to increase the 540 to about 3500/3600 rpm. A single stage gear increase will change the output shaft direction.

A side by side arrangement with belt /pulley, or sprocket and chain.

2. Find a hyd pump that will run at 540 rpm and provide pressure at 2500 to 3000 psi.
You tractor can operate a hyd pump pumping about 15 GPM's at 3000 psi.


3. A PTO pump by prince, but they are high dollar. They run at about 2200 psi.

A 4 in cyl will produce about 15 ton, at 3000 psi. The GPM's available will determine the speed of operation.

There are also fast extend valves that will give speed improvement.

How many GPM on your Yanmar?

1) I follow you an the gear drive creating the reverse rotation maybe more engineering than I want if not necessary.

2) is this based on HP or how do you arive at this figure JJ?

3) My tractor is 2200 psi and only about 8-9 gph and I am not even sure its putting out like it should based on my loader operation...

Thanks so far and what do you think about my 4 speed pto

(I have to look at the Yanmar thread about pto speeds to see what they are for sure dont know at this moment)

I had planned on that as a way to increase the output from a high pressure pump to suit my needs?

My cyl is probably a 3.5" and is 25" stroke roughly its about 4" OD.

 

[J_J]

4 times the PTO speed will give 2160 rpm for the two stage..

The Surplus Hydraulics has a tech help section at the upper left of the hydraulics page, then on the left are some help categories. Look for calculators, then pump displacement and HP. Then fill in the blanks, and it will compute some answers.

My Kubota has two speeds, and if your tractor has several speeds, that may change things

Your pressure and GPM are usable, ;and I would try that first.

You might check the relief valve for the correct pressure for your hyd system.

 

[Car Doc]

Ok I will check them out thanks!

I am leaning twords the Northern Hyd and along that line for pumps.

My John S Barnes 2 stage pump on it now is a dandy they dont make them any more I guess they were bought by someone and renamed but still have to rig a reverser to have the cheap splitter 2 stage pumps not impossible just more work.

I have thought about using the tractor hydraulics for quite a long time now but I dont want to run the engine flat out to get the pressure and volume I need thats why the 4 speed pto should be a sweet deal in theory.

 

[N8ghz]

I imagine your existing 5hp engine/pump is an 11gpm 2-stage?
You think your Yanmar is 8-9 GPM......on a 3.5" cylinder, the speed would be just a little slower if it's really 9GPM. I don't know the rod diameter, but if it's like 1.25", I calculate 13 seconds for full 25" stroke out and back. It'd be 10.6 seconds for 11 GPM, not taking into account when the 2-stage drops to it's high-pressure-low GPM mode....so all-in-all, I would think you wont see much of a speed difference in actual splitting? In other words, splitting with the 5hp/2-stage setup, would only be 1.4 seconds faster with NO load. I am betting that it goes to low-speed mode while actually splitting...for longer than 1.4 seconds? Return stroke and getting up to the log would just be slightly slower.

 

[Barry 1]

When I built my tow behind,horizontal splitter, I also made the back end of it for 3 point hitch. I can use it either way.

 

[J_J]

The two stage will also switch to low pressure when the cyl/pump pressure gets to about 650 and that could occur before and after starting the split. If the wood is tough all the way through the total length, the pump will stay in high pressure until the resistance is diminished.

For instance, the splitter could start out in low pressure, then switch to high pressure, and then back to low pressure for the extend mode. The return stroke will probably be in low pressure for the full stroke.

 

[LD1]

IMO, at 8-9 GPM from your tractor, and only a 3.5" cylinder, I would tie into the tractors hydraulics. Do you have remotes? As already mentioned, you probabally wouldnt notice much speed difference. With that set-up, the cycle times would be acceptable.

IT is when you get a splitter with a 4" cylinder and only have a 5-6gpm tractor that things get REAL slow.

I also have to ask why you are wanting to do this? Is the gas motor on its last leg? Pump? or are you just tired of towing it and want it to be ridgid? Becasue it thats the case, why not leave the hydraulics alone, and just make a 3PH mount and still let it operate off the gas motor? I a sure that has got to be more efficient than running a 42HP tractor @ 2000+ RPM

Not to mention, an actual PTO pump runs close to $500. So how much do ya want to spend?

 

[Car Doc]

Hey guys thanks for chiming in the gas splitter is just fine as is its a little low and is hard on my back and knees but that isn't the big problem.

I always now days take my tractor on a trailer out to the trees and use it to pull downs out into a clearing where I can buck/split them and getting all my equipment there is a challenge w/o someone to wag the splitter there and also to push the limbs into a burn pile for the land owner and get them out of my way. I dont always have help plus I like doing things myself and not having to depend on anyone else fwtw.

My thinking is attach it to the tractor and if I do any wagging of anything it can be my pup trailer behind the car trailer and have every thing I need at the site a lot easier.

Not exactly legal but around here for dirt country roads nobody cares one bit about that I am out at the crack of dawn on weekends anyway. I have towed the splitter for years behind a pickup bed trailer behind my pickup I wouldn't do that on the hiway that would get me a ticket.

With that said my ulterior motive is DECREASE my cycle times if anything and as far as using fuel that is a non issue with a Yanmar even a bigger one like mine. IE: I can run my pto pump backhoe in pto 3rd gear at 1200 rpm all day on a couple gals of fuel.

The other thing I have come to the conclusion right off is I really dont want to have to run my tractors engine flat out to use the tractor hydraulics (I dont have remotes either btw) and having a 4 speed PTO is an attractive alternative allowing me using a pto pump instead.

I agree with you all about the specs say it will work but IMHO not what I want to achieve if I can do it another way.

Barry 1, Great idea! I did think about simply putting 3pt mounts on the splitter like it is and running the gas engine that is the common sense way no doubt and easier!

That was my first thoughts because the splitter has been such a good one I hate to tear it apart but I still will keep the frame around in case I ever want to change it back build another one etc.

I believe have came up with a simple way to attach an inexpensive 2 stage 16gpm splitter pump reversed in the mount and attach it to my lower 3pt top link mounting hole and have it with quick connects so I can have the pump already on when I back up to the splitter. My backhoe is a pita to hook the pump up when the backhoe is on the tractor is why I came up with that idea.

I only need to find #50 or #60 chain sprockets that I can weld on the adapters and I am pretty much set that and compute the actual speeds I can get and the gear reduction needed I wouldn't mind doing it so it works on a 540 in case I ever change tractors.

Yes N8ghz I do have an 11gpm pump on now and plan on a 16gpm to hopefully decrease cycle times unless my thinking is wrong?

LD1, I have always wanted remotes if for nothing other than a hydraulic top link. I am tempted to put remotes on and try it on this but then I have other issues that would be added engineering I dont know. JJ and you both think it would work it probably will I just dont know if its what I want to do.