Help with Loader Valve IH 2400 and Cross SBA22

[alchemy]

Hi everyone! First post. I wish I would have known of this tractor/hydraulic paradise before I started buying stuff. Even though I can build or fix about anything else there are 2 major things I've never done, hydraulic systems and welding. I just bought an old IH 2400 tractor with loader. It almost immediately started blowing fluid from a left center plug on the valve assembly to the point I could not use it.
The first pic is a lousy pic of my valve with the plug mentioned removed. The other identical plug has a nut welded on it from a previous owner. Probably for easier removal. The other also had a nut welded but it broke off.

The second pic is of one valve (mine has 2 together) from the web.
Though I dont know which one this is I believe mine has both a 3 position and a 4 position valve but they look the same to me. Maybe the 4 position one is the one on the right used for tilting the bucket up and down?


The 3rd and 4th pics are parts diagrams of that plug and valve (upside down) from cnh.com .
The first is the 3 position valve and the second, the 4 position valve.


The "plug" is apparently called a "check poppet" and both valves the "poppet assembly" contained nothing but the main peice (#11 and#21) and two cheap standard o rings on each that were distorted or broken. Before I saw these diagrams I replaced with better o rings and it leaks worse. Then with seeing the diagram and all the stuff missing combined with the fact that this tractor is rigged everywhere, I decided to buy a whole new aftermarket assembly. I'll post that separately. After ordering the new valve, and trying to study for the install, the terms "open center" and "closed center" made me wonder if those parts were deliberately removed to make it work. Maybe as an "open center?" I have no idea. Anyway, it apparently worked without the parts. I'm ordering the right seal parts (20,22,23 and 24) X 2 to see if it works with the right seals since they are cheap. The other parts in the "check poppet assembly" would put it up to to about 350.00 and not worth it. I assume that will make it "unchecked" but not leaking? When I used the loader for about an hour to load stuff (300-400# loads) before the leak happened, it seemed to work OK for me. Thank You in advance for any help and understanding.

 

[J_J]

What you describe and where it is located, appears to be a load check that prevents the load shifting when you are shifting the levers.

If you need a good loader joystick valve, here is a valve that will handle your hyd system flow, and has float.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-4782&catname=hydraulic


This is your hyd data.


Hydraulics:
Type: open center
Capacity: -unknown-
Pressure: 2500 psi [172.4 bar]
Valve flow: 12 gpm [45.4 lpm]
Total flow: 12 gpm [45.4 lpm]
17 gpm [64.3 lpm] (reverser/hydro)
Steering flow: 2.5 gpm [9.5 lpm]

 

[alchemy]

This is your hyd data.


Hydraulics:
Type: open center
Capacity: -unknown-
Pressure: 2500 psi [172.4 bar]
Valve flow: 12 gpm [45.4 lpm]
Total flow: 12 gpm [45.4 lpm]
17 gpm [64.3 lpm] (reverser/hydro)
Steering flow: 2.5 gpm [9.5 lpm]

Thanks so much. So it should work without the check parts as long as it's sealed? "Check parts" meaning the spring and poppet (#'s 8 and 9 or 18 and 19).

 

[alchemy]

Post 2 of my original post. I already bought a Cross SBA22 before I joined the forum and before I realized I may be able to get the original valve working. It should be arriving soon. I may end up selling it if the OEM valve gets fixed.
Anyway, I have almost no idea how to install it, the lines, settings, extra kits etc. Before I found this place I was just going to try it the best I could and see if it worked. I suppose even if I don't end up using it now, whether it would work or not may be helpful to others or when I sell it. Here is what I have on it. Much of it is french to me.
update: technical data, variables, example diagrams etc I could not upload because it is over 1MB

 

[J_J]

What may happen is that if you have a heavy load raised, and you move the levers, there is a small gap in time where the load may drop suddenly, until the spool is fully engaged or back in neutral.

The load will drop faster than you think. Those load check are there for a good reason.

Don't know what you paid for that valve, but the ones I posted is a better way to go, plus you would have a joystick valve.

This valve is a 14 GPM valve.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-4782&catname=hydraulic

After looking at your valve again, 18 and 19 is the load checks, but 8 and 9 are part of the spool either spring center or float.

Did you mean to say 18 and 19 on both spools?

I don't think I would use that valve.

Tell me this, does the spool appear to spring center, and does it have float?

 

[alchemy]

Thanks again JJ, the same missing parts are 8 and 9 for the 3 position valve diagram and 18 and 19 for the four position valve diagram.

The new cross valve I already bought and it cannot be returned. I jumped on it because it's a 300-450.00 valve I got for much less. It was recomended by another company for what I had. How knowledgeable they were , I don't know. Wish I could upload the tech paperwork on it.

 

[J_J]

The little balls in the end part of that valve is usually for detent float if that is the first spool in the valve set.

 

[alchemy]

The little balls in the end part of that valve is usually for detent float if that is the first spool in the valve set.

It only leaks from the two center top plugs(check poppet assembly), mainly the left one, for lift. In the IH diagrams the valves are upside down for some reason and shows the check poppet assembly come out the bottom when they are actually on top. Anyway, when I was using it, before it started leaking too bad it didn't start initiallly dropping when pulled for up til the fluid got real low. Before that the response seemed OK.
Are you telling me it also has float?
Do you know if all four cylinders should be double action? Do you know if I would need to adjust stuff on that SBA 22 for 4 double action cylinders with float (if it is supposed to have that) or whatever else. Then I'm still not sure if I'll be OK with "open center" that I think it comes as.
As for the old OE valve I guess I'm going to be trying it anyway with the new oe seals, retaining rings, etc since they'll be here next week.
.

 

[J_J]

The only detent on a loader valve is the float detent.

Best guess, it is float detent if all the parts are there, and it is clean and usable.

Have you taken that section apart yet, and if you do , be careful and don't lose the little balls, as those are the balls that sit in a groove for detent.

Detent float on a loader valve is usually lift lever fully fwd and it should snap into detent float.

Don't blame me on any grief you may have about using the valve with out load checks.

When trying to let a bucket full down easy and it goes down to fast and you try and stop it, using a complete valve is hard. You may raise the tail end of the tractor and it will get your attention.

 

[alchemy]

The only detent on a loader valve is the float detent.

Best guess, it is float detent if all the parts are there, and it is clean and usable.

Have you taken that section apart yet, and if you do , be careful and don't lose the little balls, as those are the balls that sit in a groove for detent.

Detent float on a loader valve is usually lift lever fully fwd and it should snap into detent float.

Don't blame me on any grief you may have about using the valve with out load checks.

When trying to let a bucket full down easy and it goes down to fast and you try and stop it, using a complete valve is hard. You may raise the tail end of the tractor and it will get your attention.

I think I may be getting lost. Are you saying the part that I call the check poppet is the "float detent?" If the float detent is somewhere else, no I have not messed with it. BTW, I haven't mentioned, there is a ball valve installed at the front left line which is the valve for lift. Maybe they installed that so it would not drop after they rigged it by removing the poppet and spring? Also I've never seen a "ball." The part that is supposed to be in the check poppet that is missing , along with the spring, is supposed to be what looks like a tapered flat plug with a short guide rod.