BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST

   / BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST #21  
Well I guess my idea will not work.
What about a transmission on the MidPTO, what if there were a tranny
that spun 50% slower and 50% more the power?

Is that feasable?
Feasible, but not Physic. Transmissions change speed and torque in inverse proportion, thus leaving power the "same" ... actually there is a few % loss associated with the transmision. Your best most efficient bet is to use a direct 1:1 drive, and a pump displacement, pressure, and speed rating matched to the power and speed of the drive. In order to get the most you will have to use full engine power at whatever RPM that is -- and match the pump to the midPTO rpm at that eng rpm. You will be needing a separate hyd reservoir designated to your hi delivery hydraulics. Relying on your tractor borne system reservoir will be very high risk to the tractor.
larry
 
   / BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST #22  
Any way you look at it, you are limited by the PTO HP. about 17HP.

17 HP can produce 8.5 GPM, at 3000 psi.

Feed that to a hyd motor, and you will have about 14.25 HP produced by the hyd motor.

The cu in and GPM will determine the hyd motor speed whether it is an auger, or a hyd motor for a snow blower.

You are still pushing that fluid with a 17 HP source.

For a set GPM, the torque will increase, and the rpm will decrease with a larger cu in hyd motor.

If you increase the pressure, torque will increase.

8.6 GPM at 3000 psi flowing through a 7.5 cu in hyd motor will have a speed of 262 rpm, and produce about 3583 in lbs of torque.

If you decrease the pressure, keeping the 17 HP, you can get more GPM's.
 
   / BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST
  • Thread Starter
#23  
And if I didn't want to run 100% throttle, but would perfer 75% it drops things even lower...

100% = 17.70HP
50% = 8.85HP
25% = 4.43HP
+____________
75% = 12.675HP

I don't know how to do the math but an extreamly rude saleman who refused to give me a spec sheet for a pump until AFTER I gave him a CC#
(believe it) said using 12Hp I would have 6.86 GPM and I had told him
Danuser pumps say "up to 3000 PSI" .

I don't know, it seems like not
enough for a good running drill, I may be wrong.

Kinda looks like BUST and back to what CJONEs I think said, a 3Point Hitch with an Aux Power Unit hangin' on it... :cool:
 
   / BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST #24  
Try as we might, we can't repeal the laws of physics.:)
 
   / BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST #25  
And if I didn't want to run 100% throttle, but would perfer 75% it drops things even lower...

100% = 17.70HP
50% = 8.85HP
25% = 4.43HP
+____________
75% = 12.675HP

I don't know how to do the math but an extreamly rude saleman who refused to give me a spec sheet for a pump until AFTER I gave him a CC#
(believe it) said using 12Hp I would have 6.86 GPM and I had told him
Danuser pumps say "up to 3000 PSI" .

I don't know, it seems like not
enough for a good running drill, I may be wrong.

Kinda looks like BUST and back to what CJONEs I think said, a 3Point Hitch with an Aux Power Unit hangin' on it... :cool:
Whats wrong with using 100% throttle when you need it? Diesels love to operate hi in their range. Actually, until loaded the "full throttle setting is just a hi rpm idle feeding just enuf fuel to keep the rpm at setting. This is the case even at lower settings. Wherever you set it, the governor in the fuel injector pump will try to keep it there by feeding more fuel [up to injector max] as load increases. It would probably be optimum to set an aux system up to be able to use about 95% of the full available HP. Since the HP curve is rather flat with a diesel, because torque rises for a while as rpm decreases, the aux system will not be able to stall the engine. [HP consumed by the pump goes down proportional to rpm and the engines HP does not .]
larry
 
   / BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST #26  
I think you guys are forgetting something. maybe I am wrong on this count - but if a tractor with 23 hp engine has rear PTO off the hydrotransmission there is a hp loss down to 17hp. BUT- when you factor in the fact that the rear turns at 540 rpms at rated engine speed - what about the gearing to the mid mount pto? there would be further hp loss due to higher mid pto speeds? lets say hp drops down to 12-15hp for Mid pto? Am I wrong in this thinking?
I am hoping we can make the mid mount work for other implements add on - but I don't want artisan to be setup for failure ...
 
   / BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST #27  
If the mid mount PTO gear drive or hyd motor?
 
   / BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST
  • Thread Starter
#28  
If the mid mount PTO gear drive or hyd motor?

This morning I wanted to find out the rotation, CW/CCW, of the Mid PTO
Shaft (Looking rearwards at the 31/32" 10 Spline Shaft, it spins "ClockWise")
so I laid the seat forward, put a clamp on it to simulate my butt sitting in the
seat to prevent auto-stall, as if I fell out of the seat, and I eased into engaging
the Mid PTO as I laid on the ground looking at it. I am quite sure it is a Hydrstatic
type of engagement, there were no gears to pop in, I could actually lay into it slowly and the shaft
would start very slow and go faster and faster.
 
   / BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST
  • Thread Starter
#29  
Whats wrong with using 100% throttle when you need it? Diesels love to operate hi in their range. Actually, until loaded the "full throttle setting is just a hi rpm idle feeding just enuf fuel to keep the rpm at setting. This is the case even at lower settings. Wherever you set it, the governor in the fuel injector pump will try to keep it there by feeding more fuel [up to injector max] as load increases. It would probably be optimum to set an aux system up to be able to use about 95% of the full available HP. Since the HP curve is rather flat with a diesel, because torque rises for a while as rpm decreases, the aux system will not be able to stall the engine. [HP consumed by the pump goes down proportional to rpm and the engines HP does not .]
larry

Larry I guess I just want to try to save it a little. For semi short tasks of
spinning it up to do a task I see no issue and indeed I step aside to your
better knowledge, ok, Pedal to Da' Metal it is then.

I have not given up, I betya I am missing something here, or I need to look
at it a lil different. Gosh it is screaming for something to do under there. I
mean physics can't be thwarted but there is a gimmic, a way, something I
have not found yet that would be stellar for usage of the BX25's mid PTO I
bet. Heck this afternoon I looked at a hydraulic T-Post Fence driver and I
believe it consumed 5.3 G'sPM , If I created 6.86 GPM at 75% were in the
money for that tool, and that would be cool so...

Today I stopped into a very large Hydraulics repair shop in town called MD
Hydraulics. I talked my way into the hands of there seniormost repair
foreman, you know the guy, the one w/ a huge work area and a-hundred
pump bibles on shelves and long clean metal desks and hundreds and
pumps everywhere, tools and boxes and he had the best area in the whole
building, they rebuild HUGE stuff as well.

I told him my requirements and HP, I told him a long, not fat pump would be
desirable and if I could get inlets and outlets out the opposite end from the
shaft there would be bonus points so hoses could go straight to the front
w/o 90 degree fittings creating friction loss, and he says, follow me. He
took me out back to an assembly others were building up, pointing to a
small most perfect sized Danfoss pump that looked absolutely perfect in
design and size. I wrote Danfoss and sure enough someone passed the
buck and I have yet to contact his asociates for they have no email, but I
will and I will attempt to ID and get it's specs and or ask for a pump to
match my givens with that configuration.

It's hard to do this from my seat, once these guys realize I am pumping
them for info and don't know what I want and they can't just ask for
for a model number and take my CC there not interested. I guess I can't
blame them, but if they found me a pump for a decent price I would be a
buyer. I need a spec sheet first, or a CAD file so I can chew on it and THAT
means they have to give up a model number w/o a sale, and in their minds
now I am off to price shop it...so it is hard.

FWIW
 

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