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  1. #1
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    Default Dump Trailer Control Valve and New Rear Remotes Question

    I am new to TBN (well I've been lurking and reading for a few months now) but now I am ready to dive in. I would first like to say that the TBN forums are totally awesome, and you guys are extremely helpful. And please excuse if I use the incorrect lingo as I am still learning

    I have a kubota L4740 to which I recently added a L90 BH and PB/QC in the rear done by the dealer. I have been reading and reading as much as I could find about adding some rear controls for a T-N-T (yes probably going with Fit Rite) for my boxes and blades, dump trailer, No-till drill, and a 3pt log splitter. I have a few quick questions if someone can confirm for me as I am a noob at hydraulics and would like to get this right:

    1. As I understand it, for the Log Splitter I can use the same QC that the BH uses as the Splitter already has the control built in. So I don't need to add anything.
    2. For the TNT, I would need 2 4way 3pos center spring spools. Should they be center open or closed? And if I use QCs for this I can also use these 2 spools for the No-till drill.
    3. As for the dump trailer there is only one line coming from the cylinder, so as I understand it that would be a 3way (single acting) 3 pos center spring spool, and I assume center closed?

    With all that I would only need a three spool valve like https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...name=hydraulic with PB of course. From what I read I can change the center to open or closed for each spool depending on need. If anyone can confirm that, it would be awesome.

    Lastly, I need and IN/OUT to the new CV. I was wondering if it's possible to reuse the PB/QC already added in the rear for the BH as the in/out to the new CV and then use the PB of the new CV for the BH and Log splitter? I assume with the already existing FEL and the PB in the rear, there are no more PB ports to use without "teeing" either the FEL or the rear PBs, or should I use a diverter valve between the existing rear PB and the new CV? (the last option seems sub-optimal to me as I would never use the BH and the other attachments at the same time).

    Again I would just like to say that with TBN I would never be able to attempt this. But as I plan to do all of my own work from now on and going into the winter, I am committed to do this myself.

  2. #2
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dump Trailer Control Valve and New Rear Remotes Question

    Your hyd

    Hydraulics:
    Type: open center
    Capacity: 11.4 gal [43.1 L]
    Valves: 2 to 3
    Pump flow: 9.8 gpm [37.1 lpm]
    Total flow: 14.7 gpm [55.6 lpm]
    Steering flow: 4.9 gpm [18.5 lpm]

    TractorData.com kubota L4740 tractor information

    For the 3 or 4 spool valve, you need open center valve with PB.

    You might even need 4 spools if you want tilt.

    For SA cyl on the dump, you would use one of the spools work port and plug the other.

    The BH connection should work for the log splitter.
    Last edited by J_J; 10-20-2012 at 07:48 AM.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  3. #3
    Bronze Member WilcoKubota's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dump Trailer Control Valve and New Rear Remotes Question

    Hello,

    explanation of open/closed center system

    1: Yes, you can just connect the lines of the log splitter to the already existing QC. The PB line is going to the inlet of the valve, and the return back to the tank, logically.

    2: Yes, but for the top link I would also suggest a float function. (so: SVW1DD1) This allows you to let the top link move freely. All valve's in an open center system should be open center, and all valves should have PB exept for the last valve in the system.
    So: Pump to inlet of fel valve, fel's PB to your QC you already have, QC to tank. All tank lines back to tank.
    after you installed the new valve: Pump to inlet of fel valve, fel's PB to new valve inlet, new valve PB to your QC you already have, QC to tank. All tank lines back to tank.
    Is the drill attached to the 3pt? if so, you already use the spools for the TNT.

    3: Yes, the cylinder is single-acting. You can use a single or double acting valve for that and only use one workport, but I recommend the single acting valve. Also open center. You can use one top link QC and put it in float if you want to lower the dump trailer.

    How's your 3pt connected?

    I hope this helped you.
    Wilco

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Dump Trailer Control Valve and New Rear Remotes Question

    Quote Originally Posted by WilcoKubota View Post
    Great. Even simpler than I imagined. So the open closed center is based on the system in use, which in my case is always open centered. One less thing to think about.

    1: Yes, you can just connect the lines of the log splitter to the already existing QC. The PB line is going to the inlet of the valve, and the return back to the tank, logically.
    Thanks for confirming this.

    2: Yes, but for the top link I would also suggest a float function. (so: SVW1DD1) This allows you to let the top link move freely. All valve's in an open center system should be open center, and all valves should have PB exept for the last valve in the system.
    Okay found that option. TY for the suggestion.

    So: Pump to inlet of fel valve, fel's PB to your QC you already have, QC to tank. All tank lines back to tank.
    after you installed the new valve: Pump to inlet of fel valve, fel's PB to new valve inlet, new valve PB to your QC you already have, QC to tank. All tank lines back to tank.
    Actually the QC for the rear was added directly to the pump(?) by the dealer. There is a separate line off to the QC in the rear. So to confirm what your saying, install the new valve inline before the rear QC and move the QC to the PB of the new valve. Yes?

    Is the drill attached to the 3pt? if so, you already use the spools for the TNT.
    Well since my draw bar is too low I use the 3pt with a crossbar to level the drill. But the hydraulics for the drill will need separate controls to raise and lower the implement. According to the manual there are two cylinders I assume are SA in series. The drill is a rental from my local SS which I use twice a year. The SS guy said to just connect those lines to my existing 3pt lines. The problem here is I don't have QCs on them and they are single rubber lines directly to the cylinder on each side. Even if I didn't have to use the 3pt to level the drill, wouldn't I need to add QCs to each side to use the drill the way they describe? I guess they assume I have a bigger tractor and the 3pt has QCs? This is one of the main reasons to add the RCV (well that and I want TNT for my blades and boxes). Since I figure I won't use the TNT and the drill at the same time I should be able to use one pair of the TNT QC ports for the drill when I need it.

    3: Yes, the cylinder is single-acting. You can use a single or double acting valve for that and only use one workport, but I recommend the single acting valve. Also open center. You can use one top link QC and put it in float if you want to lower the dump trailer.
    Great. That's what I will do then.

    How's your 3pt connected?
    As I mentioned in 2, the existing 3pt cylinders are connected by a single rubber line (1/4" or 3/8") on each side (all factory). Now that I look at those they don't look very stout.
    I hope this helped you.
    Wilco
    Thanks so much to you both for your help. This helps alot. At least I have nailed down the valve specs. The rest "should be" just hoses and fittings.

  5. #5
    Bronze Member WilcoKubota's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dump Trailer Control Valve and New Rear Remotes Question

    Quote Originally Posted by harveyev View Post

    Actually the QC for the rear was added directly to the pump(?) by the dealer. There is a separate line off to the QC in the rear. So to confirm what your saying, install the new valve inline before the rear QC and move the QC to the PB of the new valve. Yes?
    Can you describe your hydraulic flow? so pump -> ... -> ... -> tank

    Well since my draw bar is too low I use the 3pt with a crossbar to level the drill. But the hydraulics for the drill will need separate controls to raise and lower the implement. According to the manual there are two cylinders I assume are SA in series. The drill is a rental from my local SS which I use twice a year. The SS guy said to just connect those lines to my existing 3pt lines. The problem here is I don't have QCs on them and they are single rubber lines directly to the cylinder on each side. Even if I didn't have to use the 3pt to level the drill, wouldn't I need to add QCs to each side to use the drill the way they describe? I guess they assume I have a bigger tractor and the 3pt has QCs? This is one of the main reasons to add the RCV (well that and I want TNT for my blades and boxes). Since I figure I won't use the TNT and the drill at the same time I should be able to use one pair of the TNT QC ports for the drill when I need it.
    Well, I never heard of QC's attached at the 3pt, and i've worked on big and small tractors, but I think he meant one pair of RC's.

    As I mentioned in 2, the existing 3pt cylinders are connected by a single rubber line (1/4" or 3/8") on each side (all factory). Now that I look at those they don't look very stout.
    How is your 3pt valve feeded?

    Wilco.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Dump Trailer Control Valve and New Rear Remotes Question

    Quote Originally Posted by WilcoKubota View Post
    Can you describe your hydraulic flow? so pump -> ... -> ... -> tank
    Well aside from the rear QC loop for the BH (see attached photos), everything else is stock. Not sure how else to describe it
    So for the FEL: pump -> FEL -> tank
    And for the rear QC: Pump -> QC -> Tank


    Well, I never heard of QC's attached at the 3pt, and i've worked on big and small tractors, but I think he meant one pair of RC's.


    How is your 3pt valve feeded?
    Right. No rear RCs and therein is at least part of my motivation. As you can see in the attached pic there are two smaller lines coming from an outlet on each side of the transfer case above the PTO. It doesn't seem I would do anything with those lines and just reroute the QC to the new valve and use the existing QC on the PB off of that.

    I am now ****-bent ordering the service manual so I can at least refer to this stuff with the "proper terms".Any tips on reliable sources of service manuals besides my dealer who is a rip-off?

    Thanks again for all your help.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -3pt-hydraulic-lines-sm-jpg   -factory-fel-hookup-sm-jpg   -rearqd-sm-jpg  

  7. #7
    Bronze Member WilcoKubota's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dump Trailer Control Valve and New Rear Remotes Question

    Quote Originally Posted by harveyev View Post
    Well aside from the rear QC loop for the BH (see attached photos), everything else is stock. Not sure how else to describe it
    So for the FEL: pump -> FEL -> tank
    And for the rear QC: Pump -> QC -> Tank
    I dont think I understand you right, so maybe you can answer this:

    FEL valve = feeded from the pump
    back CQ (for BH) = feeded from the PB of the fel valve
    3pt = feeded from the QC (loop) on the back

    is this right? if it isn't please correct.

    I am now ****-bent ordering the service manual so I can at least refer to this stuff with the "proper terms".Any tips on reliable sources of service manuals besides my dealer who is a rip-off?
    I'm sorry, but I life in Holland so I cant help you with that.

    Wilco.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Dump Trailer Control Valve and New Rear Remotes Question

    Quote Originally Posted by WilcoKubota View Post
    I dont think I understand you right, so maybe you can answer this:

    FEL valve = feeded from the pump
    back QC (for BH) = feeded from the PB of the fel valve
    3pt = feeded from the QC (loop) on the back

    is this right? if it isn't please correct.
    3pt is also fed from the pump directly. Otherwise all correct. Unless there's an issue with reusing the back QC to feed my new CV and move the existing QC to the PB of the new CV which means the existing tank line will be connected all the time unless I have my BH or splitter attached to the existing QC (which will now hang off the new CV). So generally what I think it will look like is...

    Old: Pump -> FEL Valve -> QC (for BH and Splitter) ->Tank
    New: Pump -> FEL Valve -> New CV w/ PB -> QC(for BH and Splitter) -> Tank

    And the CV Setup is:
    4 SPOOL SV VALVE OPEN CENTER W/POWER BEYOND
    Item# 9SV-4-Y
    Components:
    - SVW1AA1 (SA CYL SPOOL SPRING CENTERED) #PSV A SECTION - (for Dump)
    - SVW1DD1 (DA CYL SPOOL W/DETENTED FLOAT POSITION) #PSV D SECTION (top Link)
    - SVW1BA1 (DA CYL SPOOL SPRING CENTERED) #PSV B SECTION (Tilt)
    - SVW1BA1 (DA CYL SPOOL SPRING CENTERED) #PSV B SECTION (extra)
    - POWER BEYOND OUTLET SECTION #SVE22
    - SAE8 RELIEF INLET SECTION #SVI15
    - 4 SECTION TIE ROD KIT #660401004

    I'm sorry, but I life in Holland so I cant help you with that.

    Wilco.
    No worries. I will find one somewhere. Since I now know the CV setup, I just ordered the CV and the fittings and lines (except the main in/out which I will measure once I mock it all up). I took Piston's advice on the swivels as well. At the end it will look similar Piston's setup location-wise since I have similar model and setup. I will just use aluminum rod bend around the ROPs and thread the ends to hold the QCs in the aluminum mounting plate.

    Thanks again for all your help!

  9. #9
    Bronze Member WilcoKubota's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dump Trailer Control Valve and New Rear Remotes Question

    3pt is also fed from the pump directly. Otherwise all correct. Unless there's an issue with reusing the back QC to feed my new CV and move the existing QC to the PB of the new CV which means the existing tank line will be connected all the time unless I have my BH or splitter attached to the existing QC (which will now hang off the new CV). So generally what I think it will look like is...

    Old: Pump -> FEL Valve -> QC (for BH and Splitter) ->Tank
    New: Pump -> FEL Valve -> New CV w/ PB -> QC(for BH and Splitter) -> Tank
    Uee, that's right. The tank port of the FEL valve and new CV should go to tank, so you can add a tee to the tank port of the FEL valve and add there your tank hose from the new CV.

    - SVW1AA1 (SA CYL SPOOL SPRING CENTERED) #PSV A SECTION - (for Dump)
    If that one is only for dumping, I would connect it to the top link QC, that wil work to, and you dont use the top link and dump car at the same time, or change the SA spool to a DA spool with float. That also has more possibilities because you can use a single acting cylinder and double acting cylinders.

    Wilco.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Dump Trailer Control Valve and New Rear Remotes Question

    Decided finally to change the first spool to be a DA center w/ float as well for the most flexibility. I figured better to have the option to float on two spools rather than only one. While it's true that I won't be using the dump and top link together, I may have a future need to float two cylinders simultaneously, and for the extra $40 it would be worth that flexibility. So my final CV Config is:
    - SVW1DD1 (DA CYL SPOOL W/DETENTED FLOAT POSITION) #PSV A SECTION - (for Dump)
    - SVW1DD1 (DA CYL SPOOL W/DETENTED FLOAT POSITION) #PSV B SECTION (top Link)
    - SVW1BA1 (DA CYL SPOOL SPRING CENTERED) #PSV C SECTION (Tilt)
    - SVW1BA1 (DA CYL SPOOL SPRING CENTERED) #PSV D SECTION (extra)

    Once I have the CV and rear remote hardware installed I will address the integration with the existing system (i.e. where exactly to patch it in) though I am leaning atm on using the existing QC in the rear to source the new CV.

    Thanks again for all your help. I will continue to post about the progress as it happens in hopes I can give back a little of what has been given to me by "all y'alls" contributions.

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