Loader float detent

[Reg]

Hi,
I already posted in Zetor/Century/Branson forum here;
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/zetor-century-branson/273107-c50-50hl-loaders.html
but thought I would open it up as a general loader/hydraulics/joystick float question.

I guess my question at this point is; "Where does the "detenting" actually happen ?"
I have float and it is at the right place, but the stick doesn't stay there like it used to.
SOMEWHERE a little ball bearing with a spring behind it probably has the job of HOLDING the float position.
Is that usually in the joystick ? the valve block ? somewhere else ?

Yeah, probably "elementary", but just not something I have had to tear into before (-:
The joystick and cables seem to be of Indemar origin, I haven't (yet) found a parts breakdown that gives me any clues.
I don't yet know the manufacturer of the valve block, today I will be looking for a name cast into it.

 

[Leejohn]

Your detent well be in the hyd valve at the end of the spool with a cup (cover) over it. After you find out the mfg you well get some help how to take it apart.

 

[J_J]

Detent float occurs when you push the lever to force the loader down and the lever goes into detent, and follows the conture of the ground.

This is a Prince loader valve for illustrative purposes only.

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/LVManual.pdf

Go to page 10 to see an example of the float balls.

If you are going to take it apart, notice how the bolls sit in the notches. You may only need to clean and re-lube the float assembly.

You might rotate the spool 180 degrees to give the balls a new surface to grab. The lever should snap into the detent and hold until you pull the lever.

 

[Reg]

Thanks J-J,
I have a Prince block of 4 remotes at the rear of that tractor and of course I got the docs when I bought it from Surplus supply.
Just never dug into it.
I did take the end cap off CAREFULLY before reading your post, it is all back together now but I didn't see anything corresponding to the couple of balls, cone and spring.
There is an illustration early in that manual that shows an O-ring on the end of the spool with annotation "on float spool only" that had me thinking that maybe some detent
design uses the grabbing/gripping force of an O-ring - Nahh, that probably would work for 3 minutes (-:

Thanks Leejohn,
I can't make out the manufacturer's mark, though I got a couple of numbers off the casting.
The closest thing to a manufacturer's emblem looks about like this
_^_
or this if you delete the horizontal bar of the "A"
_A_
That is closer, it is a continuous line; underscore, inverted Vee, underscore.
There is probably a web site for patented emblems SOMEWHERE, I'll do some more searching.

 

[J_J]

Here is a Prince stacked valve with 4 spools.

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/SVManual.pdf

Look at page 13.

Maybe you don't have float on the remotes.

 

[/pine]

Moisture condensing in the "cups" (and rusting) contribute to the wear on the detent balls...

I recently rebuilt the float detent on my loader...the rim/lip inside the sleeve that is what actually holds the position was completely gone...

To re-assemble a detent takes just a little bit of hand coordination and some grease (to hold the balls in place)...the trick is pushing the single larger ball down on the spring so it is above the 3-4 smaller balls...

I slid the sleeve on a pin punch to push in the big ball and slid the sleeve into place...good as new now...

 

[Reg]

Here is a Prince stacked valve with 4 spools.

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/SVManual.pdf

Look at page 13.

Maybe you don't have float on the remotes.

Thanks,
I suspect the design is similar.
When I took the cap off the part corresponding to Prince float detent sleeve item 11, stayed on the spool.
I wasn't dumb enough to pull it off, but I am assuming that if the design is similar balls will go sideways and bits 9 & 10 will embed in my face.
Tomorrow I will probably wrap a shop towel around everything and hope to catch things, OTOH they may just stay stuck to heavily congealed grease.
Either way I don't want them to go in the dirt and I do have MUD right now.

Yeah, just BTW one of my rear remotes DOES have float, I ordered the sections that way from Surplus Supply and assembled them here.
I had thought I might use float for the hydraulic top link, but never have.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Yeah, a rag, and do it on concrete, not on the grass like I did! STUPID, because I knew what was going to happen! I couldn't figure out after looking for the lost ball for an hour in the grass, whether it was ever there, as the float has never worked since I got the machine some years ago. This is on a Kubota R510 Loader.

I got a similar sized ball, and rigged up all manner of bars clamped in place, with a heavy stainless steel antenna section about 3/16" dia. pushing in the centre ball. Then greased the other balls and slipped the holding sleeve in place. STILL didn't work! Oh, for some reason, pulling the control lever back with a bunjie cord seemed to give me more room to work to put the greased balls into place.

Spoke with the dealer and they gave me some really bogus advice concerning all this and were of no help whatsever! Usual response, let us look at it!

I looked at the cylinder that has the holes drilled at ninty degree angles which holds the four balls, expecting to see wear. I could see nothing worn! The sleeve with the groove cut in it that the balls lock into also appears unworn, and it can rotate so having assembled this a few times now, it isn't likely in the same orientation, and hence I would argue, is not the culprit.

Today, I did the whole proceedure over again, except I inserted another ball behind the spring to bring it out farther, in case it is simply worn. Assembly was just a bit harder (more failed attempts and curse words). STILL didn't work! Detents, but not enough to hold it.

I will probably replace that cylinder with the holes, get a new spring, but I am stumped.

Just as a side note. I had this issue with the float on my old Steiner 430 tractor. I switched the float kit from the Aux spool 9which worked) to the main spool (which would not hold) and it still didn't work. Lost the balls too! (Even on concrete). So then I stretched the spring somewhat and it worked!

Curious, how tight the tolerences might be on something like this. Do balls wear appreciably in an application of this sort?

 

[Industrial Toys]

In case this may help someone. I found my problem. I examined the joystick operation with a critical eye and suspected that the linkage was not allowing the spool to be driven all the way into the detent. I adjusted two large nuts to adjust the travel on the linkage cable and it worked fine. Took the detent apart again, to remove that extra ball I had added behind the spring, and I have a working detent.

Eight or so years I struggled without a locking float for the sake of ten minutes worth of work, on the assumption that something must be worn out! Have to say though, that I have become some kind of an expert at mastering those wayward balls!

 

[J_J]

Did you ever try moving the spool with out the cables connected?

I believe you would have isolated the problem.