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  1. #1
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    Default Jerky project cylinder action

    Hello to all,
    I built a well drilling machine. It is all hydraulic and works great except for the mast cylinder.
    It is a 2 inch double acting and swings a 600pound mast up and down.
    Here is the issue:
    1. The two way wood splitter valve seams to work fine.
    2. The valve is set at 1500.
    3. The cylinder causing extreme jerking of the mast up or down.
    4. A1/16 orifice on either line did nothing.
    5. For some reason, actuating this valve stalls the engine= 21 hp?

    Your thoughts?
    Thanks,
    Gray

  2. #2
    J_J
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    Default Re: Jerky project cylinder action

    Is your pump to big for the engine?

    Is there any air bubbles in the tank.

    What is the cu in if the pump?

    Why use a log splitter valve as the reverse is usually set around 1100 psi for auto return to neutral. .

    http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/p...lvesLsRd25.pdf
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Jerky project cylinder action

    First time project for me.
    I felt the valve was for a ram= cylinder, so it must be ok?
    The engine is 21hp and the pump is 1.8 ci I think.
    It runs the hydraulic motors just great. Each are 23.6ci and 180 rpm.
    I could get a lower pressure bypass cartrage but will that do?
    Gray
    Last edited by yarg; 03-07-2013 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Error

  4. #4
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    Didn't intend to have a Deere fleet - it just happened

    Default Re: Jerky project cylinder action

    Seems to me that intermittant motion of a hydraulic cylinder is air or variable volume of the system. Something is allowing the fluid flow to stop.

  5. #5
    J_J
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    Default Re: Jerky project cylinder action

    Something is not quite right here.

    Can you perhaps explain a little more about the hyd system.

    Using your data, and 21 HP, and a 1.8 cu in pump, that engine running at 3600 rpm would pump about 28 GPM's. That would take about 58 HP to turn that pump at a pressure of 3000 psi. AT 1500 psi, it would take about 29 HP.

    On your motors using 18 GPM, 23 cu in, rpm would be about 181.

    What valve are you using for the motors? One motor or two?

    Are you using more than one valve?

    Can you show some pictures.

    You say the pressure relief is set at 1500 for something, but what?
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Jerky project cylinder action

    No pics right now but I will try to explain.
    I run one motor at a time.
    They use at full power about 16 gpm at 1450 psi.
    One runs a chain hoist with great control and power.
    One turns the drill head pipe.
    I use a two spool double acting valve for these functions with power beyond into a second valve.
    The second valve powers the cylinder,,,,up and down.
    14 inch stroke 2 inch bore.
    I have not run the engine higher than 2400 rpm for break in and safety.
    Finished the build two days ago and discovered the cylinder issue.
    Tried an orifice on the cylinder, no good, same problem?

    Ideas?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Jerky project cylinder action

    Air? I am going to bleed it tomorrow?
    Could that cause such issues? It is just done and no oil through it till I tried to lower the mast.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Jerky project cylinder action

    JJ,
    I must say, it is nice to be able to ask someone this sort of question.
    I am in Barry remote location where few if any have knowledge to help on this.
    Being my first ever hydraulic project, I was happy with it till I tried the mast ram, then the pits.
    I am persistent but do appreciate a direction. Thanks for posting your ideas. And thanks to any others for sharing!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Jerky project cylinder action

    JJ

    Hello again.
    I was up much the night thinking of these options:
    Get lower pressure relief cartage for valve,,,,500-1500?
    Place a 1/32 orifice in supply line?

    This may allow for engine not to stall and decrease travel speed/ force to a reliable level?
    Blead all air so bouncing is not possible.

  10. #10
    J_J
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    Default Re: Jerky project cylinder action

    Those cyl are probably 2500 to 3000 psi cyl, so why not use the power they can generate.

    The cyl is going to move at whatever lever position you set.

    Don't know how much the boom is lifting, but the pressure is generated by the load that the boom has to lift. By setting the relief valve to 1500 you essentially set the load that the boom can lift before the relief will go off.

    GPM's dictate the speed of operation.

    If you want reduced GPM, reduce the engine rpm.

    If you need to keep the engine running fast for the pump to feed the hyd motors, then you run those same GPM through the cyl, which is probably way to fast.

    There is another valve called a divider valve and this one will give 2 GPM to the cyl and pass the rest of the flow to tank. It is also set to 1500 psi if that is what you want.

    Surplus Center - 2/30 GPM PRINCE PRIORITY FLOW DIVIDER W/RELIEF

    http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-4158-2.pdf

    This valve would go between the motor valve and the cyl valve.

    What you are doing here is to reduce the GPM's to the cyl

    All OUT ports should go to tank and can be teed together.

    You do have the PB adapter installed and the flow is going to the IN port of the next valve, correct.

    Any air should self purge, so work that cyl about 10 times, using full cycles , feeding it small amounts of fluid by using the valve lever.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

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