Thinking of a top and tilt setup

[J_J]

Surplus Center - 1/2" NPT 20 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE

Surplus Center - 1/2" NPT 20 GPM PRINCE SELECTOR VALVE

 

[jim_wilson]

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE

I looked at the manual valves - for the sake of being able to "hide" the valve somewhere - I was hoping to stick with an electrically actuated valve of some sort.

I actually already have the valve in the link above: bought it last year while I was trying to think out exactly what I wanted to do. I figured I could use that valve if I couldn't find one that simply switched between two circuits, by just plugging half of the ports.

Either that - or I will just use the valve to swap the PB side - and the "Out" side.
(here's the schematic for the valve plumbing: http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7852.pdf )

PB feed from loader valve block --- > "P1" in port on Surplus center valve

OUT - from side of oil reservoir case ---> "P2" port on Surplus center valve


Non-energized position on SplsCtr valve:

C1 port on SplsCtr valve ---> PB to backhoe / 3pt (P1 goes to C1)

C4 port on SplsCtr valve ---> OUT to P2 port - to oil reservoir (C4 goes to P2)



energize SplsCtr valve to activate the additional front hydraulics:

C2 port ---> PB to additional front hydraulics (P1 goes to C2)

C3 port ---> OUT (return) from additional front hydraulics (C3 goes to P2)


There should be no problems switching the "out" ports right? Would switching the out ports be a bad idea - could there be a potential for pressure spikes or something if the valves didn't have a dedicated out back to the tank?

 

[J_J]

I am not sure why you want to use an additional valve to switch fluid flow.

If you have all valves in series, there is no need for the diverter valve in your situation.

Your flow should be something like this.

Pump , FEL, BH, remotes if you have them or 3pt and tank.

If the BH is connected, you use the loader valve when you have to, or, you use the BH, probably never using both at the same time.

Should you disconnect the BH. then loop a hose from the PB to the remotes or 3pt.

The FEL will have priority over any other valve, and is the master relief for the hyd system.

 

[jim_wilson]

I am not sure why you want to use an additional valve to switch fluid flow.

If you have all valves in series, there is no need for the diverter valve in your situation.

Your flow should be something like this.

Pump , FEL, BH, remotes if you have them or 3pt and tank.

If the BH is connected, you use the loader valve when you have to, or, you use the BH, probably never using both at the same time.

Should you disconnect the BH. then loop a hose from the PB to the remotes or 3pt.

The FEL will have priority over any other valve, and is the master relief for the hyd system.

I might be missing something - because I'm not fully versed on this hydraulic stuff - but:

I believe I have to divert flow.

The FEL is fed from the loader valve block - which has a power beyond port.

That power beyond port goes to the rear of the tractor - to the QD for feeding the backhoe. The other QD on the rear of the tractor - goes directly to the 3pt valve block. The manual shows the 3pt being fed directly from the pump in the case of a tractor with no FEL, being fed directly from the loader valve block in the case of FEL but no backhoe - or lastly (as in the case of my tractor which has the backhoe setup) - being fed from the "return" pipe coming from the backhoe. When the backhoe is not attached - the PB is just looped into the pipe going to the 3pt block.

There is no return piping coming from the 3pt valve block - I believe it dumps internally.

So: I'm not sure how I would get fluid up to the remotes without using a diverter. I suppose I could just plumb another quick connect to the rear of the tractor and swap the hose from the line going to the 3pt - to a line going to the additional front remotes , but I would like to avoid that because it would involve shutting the tractor down - swapping the hose - and the starting the tractor up - to go from using the 3pt or the backhoe - to using the additional front hydraulics.

I have often gone back and forth between using the backhoe - to using the FEL while working. As a matter of convenience I would like to be able to just flip a switch.

I think I understand what you mean about having the valves in series - and I might be missing something - but I don't see how I can put the additional front valves in series - when the end of the line is the 3pt - which appears to dump internally back into the reservoir.

I suppose I could route the flow from the PB forward first - to the additional valves - then route the PB from that back to the backhoe, but I would like to avoid that because it would mean running 3 lines instead of two to the front of the tractor (PB to, PB from, and out) - and it would also put the backhoe and 3pt at the end of a long circuit - which I've got to believe might affect their performance.

 

[aczlan]

So: I'm not sure how I would get fluid up to the remotes without using a diverter. I suppose I could just plumb another quick connect to the rear of the tractor and swap the hose from the line going to the 3pt - to a line going to the additional front remotes , but I would like to avoid that because it would involve shutting the tractor down - swapping the hose - and the starting the tractor up - to go from using the 3pt or the backhoe - to using the additional front hydraulics.

PLEASE look at the PDF I posted earlier from WRLong (this one:http://www.wrlonginc.com/Hyd DO3B Flow Diagram.pdf ). As shown there, when you install another valve such as theirs it goes inline BETWEEN the loader valve and the backhoe/3 point. It is designed to work that way.

Aaron Z

 

[J_J]

New valves can be placed anywhere in the series flow as long as they have a PB port to feed fluid to the next valve.

If the 3pt is using the fluid, it has the full potential of the hyd system. However a valve up stream can take some or or all of the pump flow.

Every valve must have an out/return for the cyl or motor fluid to exit.

If you want hyd to the front, then take the PB from the loader and connect a new valve and then take the PB from the new valve and feed the hyd block, or the remotes or BH.

If you have the BH connected, the 3pt does not have to be in the circuit.

The only valves that may see any problems is a non PB valve in series with a downstream valve that can cause back pressure .

Non PB valves OUT/return ports should go to tank.

A log splitter valve is one example of a valve that should feed the OUT Fluid directly to tank and not put it in series with a downstream valve.

 

[jim_wilson]

PLEASE look at the PDF I posted earlier from WRLong (this one:http://www.wrlonginc.com/Hyd DO3B Flow Diagram.pdf ). As shown there, when you install another valve such as theirs it goes inline BETWEEN the loader valve and the backhoe/3 point. It is designed to work that way.

Aaron Z

I read the PDF - it basically says to do exactly what I've wanted to do all along - go back and read my posts - I'm thinking of doing EXACTLY what you're talking about : putting the diverter in the PB line coming from the loader valve - and going to the backhoe feed. I went back and took another look at the PDF just to refresh my memory - and it there is something on there that shows WHY I want to do it this way: the W.R. Long diagram mentions "4N1" - which means they are saying to do it this way - because you would want to have FEL hydraulics still active - when using one of their 4 in 1 buckets. This is basically the exact same reason I wanted to setup the hydraulics this way: I want the FEL hydraulics active at the same time I want the add-on hydraulics active: so I can use a 4 in 1 bucket, grapple - whatever.

Most of the diverter installs I have seen ..... divert the FEL hydraulics to control whatever additional attachment is added to the FEL - so you get normal FEL operation -or- additional implement operation , but not both at the same time.


J_J says I can avoid the diverter altogether and just put it all in series - I think I understand what he's talking about - but I don't think I can physically do that - because there is no way that I can see to put anything in series after the 3pt.

 

[J_J]

The 3pt valve is the last valve in the hyd system and sends fluid directly to tank.

Any additional valve must be in front of the 3pt.

If you are using a grapple or 4-IN- 1 , you need a diverter/selector valve.

Fluid path, pump , FEL, new valve, remotes, BH, 3pt.

The upstream valve has priority, and can use all of the fluid to operate a cyl, or the upstream valve may only use half or the pump flow and another valve may use the rest of the pump flow for whatever.

 

[aczlan]

I read the PDF - it basically says to do exactly what I've wanted to do all along - go back and read my posts - I'm thinking of doing EXACTLY what you're talking about : putting the diverter in the PB line coming from the loader valve - and going to the backhoe feed. I went back and took another look at the PDF just to refresh my memory - and it there is something on there that shows WHY I want to do it this way: the W.R. Long diagram mentions "4N1" - which means they are saying to do it this way - because you would want to have FEL hydraulics still active - when using one of their 4 in 1 buckets. This is basically the exact same reason I wanted to setup the hydraulics this way: I want the FEL hydraulics active at the same time I want the add-on hydraulics active: so I can use a 4 in 1 bucket, grapple - whatever.
Most of the diverter installs I have seen ..... divert the FEL hydraulics to control whatever additional attachment is added to the FEL - so you get normal FEL operation -or- additional implement operation , but not both at the same time.
J_J says I can avoid the diverter altogether and just put it all in series - I think I understand what he's talking about - but I don't think I can physically do that - because there is no way that I can see to put anything in series after the 3pt.

Look at where the valve is in the WRLong diagram again. Their valve is BEFORE the backhoe and 3 point as yours should be. The 3 point is ALWAYS the last thing in the loop.

A note in terminoilogy:
1. A diverter valve is generally intended to go between (for example) the curl lines and the curl cylinders to let you choose if putting the FEL lever into "Curl" position curls the bucket or opens the grapple. See Surplus Center - SAE 8 6 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE 12 VDC P15544-2 for an example of a solenoid operated version
2. A valve such as the WRLong one is NOT a diverter valve. It is a standalone valve that goes inline and can be used at the exact same time as the FEL IF the FEL isn't using all of the flow. It is something like this one: Surplus Center - 12 VDC 5 GPM OC DA HYDRAFORCE SOLENOID VALVE

Lets try a diagram of your existing system with the backhoe on, how it would look with a new power beyond valve and how it would look with a new power beyond valve when the backhoe is removed:


Does that make more sense? In some cases (as shown with the WRLong valve), the "Tank" port is optional. Note that this diagram also omits the suction line on the pump.

Aaron Z