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  1. #1
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    51
    Location
    Chesterfield, Va.
    Tractor
    Kioti DK 35

    Default Hydraulic Motor Help

    I am new to hydraulic motors and know little about them other than what I have picked up from reading past posts on this forum so please excuse some dumb questions.

    To give some background - - I have a 6" Jinma chipper. The chipper works well for my needs but the feed system does not. I made a new feed drum that actually grabs the branches, then snapped in the shaft in the drum (cold rolled steel), replaced the shaft (better steel), then snapped the drive shaft to the drum, replaced with the newer design from Jinma (works well), now bent the output shaft from the right angle gearbox! I would have thought the A section v-belt would have been the weak link in this system but the belt has held up perfectly without slipping. I looked at heavier duty gearboxes but they get too big and would require a bunch of modifications.

    Fancy chippers (read that as expensive chippers that I can't afford) use hydraulic feed systems so - - I would like to replace the feed drive with a hydraulic motor run off the hydraulic system on my tractor. I have no idea if this is practical but am just investigating.

    The tractor is a Kioti DK-35. Hydraulic output is 12.5 gpm, 2300 psi I assume at 2400 engine rpm. I usually run at a little slower RPM say around 2000.

    I need very low rpm for the feed drum. The gear reduction takes it down to 28 rpm at 2400 engine rpm.
    If possible I would like to be able to vary the speed with a max of 28 rpm down to maybe 12 rpm for when I feed in larger branches like 6".

    I have looked at hydraulic motors on different websites (Suplus Center, Baileys, etc). Seems like they have more than enough torque, require pump volume well within my tractor's capability, are small and easily adaptable to what I need but have way too much output speed with 12.5 gpm flow.

    Are there control valve/bypass valves that would allow me to set a flow/motor speed? Will this mess up my pressure to the motor? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Reggie

  2. #2
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    396
    Location
    Barossa Valley, South Australia
    Tractor
    Duetz DX3.70, Fendt 305LSA,260S & 205P,Kubota B6100E & 3 x B5100E & RTV900, Caterpillar 428C

    Default Re: Hydraulic Motor Help

    I've used these to good effect, infinitely variable with no drop in pressure to the motor. 3 ports - pressure in, out and bypass.

    Fitted one on the delivery conveyor of a grape harvester to slow that belt alone and another on a fertilizer spreader to slow the delivery chain speed - very effective in both applications.

    Surplus Center - 1/2 NPT HYD FLOW CONTROL VALVE W/RELIEF RDRS150-16

  3. #3
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Sep 2003
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    16,448
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    JACKSONVILLE, FL
    Tractor
    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: Hydraulic Motor Help

    I agree, as that is similar to the valve that my PT-1445 uses for the PTO output which is variable from 0- to max, using 13 GPM.

    As far as hyd motors, the larger the cu in motors you use with same GPM , the rpm will decrease.

    If you have 13 GPM and a 5 cu in motor, the rpm will be 601. Torque at 3000 psi will be about 2389 in lbs.

    A 10 cu in motor using 13 GPM = 300 rpm Torque = 4777 in lbs

    a 20 cu in --------------13 GPM = 150 rpm Torque = 9554 in lbs

    You will have almost constant torque throughout the speed range.

    If you gear down the rpm from the hyd motor, you can get even more torque.

    Your tractors rated pump GPM is at max speed.

    You can reduce your engine rpm down to produce less GPM, and therefore less speed for the hyd motors.

    I used 3000 psi for the torque, so your torque will be less but still good.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  4. #4
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    51
    Location
    Chesterfield, Va.
    Tractor
    Kioti DK 35

    Default Re: Hydraulic Motor Help

    allen and JJ - - thanks for the quick replies.

    I looked at the flow control valve and it looks like it will do just what I wanted. I did the calculations on GPM flow vs. pump speed and pretty much understand that. I can't reduce the tractor speed too much for this application since the chipper flywheel is coupled to the PTO and I need to keep that speed up.

    Just a couple more questions (at least for now).

    first: The hydraulic motor and the valve need to have return lines to the tractor reservoir. Can I
    tie them in together and go to the tractor hydraulic fitting or will this cause a problem?

    second: The valve has a relief valve setting. Looks like my choices are 800, 1600, 3000psi. My tractor
    hydraulic system is 2300psi - - does this mean I have to use the 3000psi valve or is the
    pressure rating for what the motor sees. Meaning that if the motor stalls and the pressure
    on the valve discharge to motor exceeds the setting it will relieve to the tank? If the latter is
    the case then 1600 would protect the pump and based on torque rating still likely produce way
    more torque then I had using the gearbox. Based on size and weight of the chipper gearbox as
    compared to gearboxes at Suplus Supply it doesn't produce much torque - - although it is
    enough to twist a small shaft or two (or three). I would like to end up with the valve relieving
    BEFORE I break anything else.


    Again, thanks for your help,
    Reggie

  5. #5
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: Hydraulic Motor Help

    Here is a Prince PDF that might explain some things.

    You might have to get a different valve to get adjustable relief.

    By the way, you can always add an external relief valve to any hyd circuit.

    Just run the relief port to tank




    http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...name=hydraulic

    http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.as...c&keyword=HAR1
    Attached Files Attached Files
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member
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    Jan 2010
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    2,497
    Location
    Northern, IL
    Tractor
    Branson 2400H

    Default Re: Hydraulic Motor Help

    A word of caution, make that the motor you are using will operate at 12 -28 RPM. Some LSHT motors will not run that slow.
    Artificial Intelligence will never overcome natural stupidity.

    Branson 2400H MMM & FEL

    JD 112

    BX1850 gone but not forgotten

  7. #7
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    396
    Location
    Barossa Valley, South Australia
    Tractor
    Duetz DX3.70, Fendt 305LSA,260S & 205P,Kubota B6100E & 3 x B5100E & RTV900, Caterpillar 428C

    Default Re: Hydraulic Motor Help

    I reckon you could use the 3000psi relief setting, it'll just mean the tractor's inbuilt relief will blow off at 2300.

    I think it should be ok to plumb the bypass in to the motor return - the bypass will have to go through the breakaway and the tractor valve but they shouldn't cause much back pressure.

  8. #8
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: Hydraulic Motor Help

    If the tractor relief valve is 2300 psi, the chipper motor valve will never go off, as the chipper valve, relief at 3000 psi, is before the tractor relief which is 2300 psi and on the 3pt valve.

    You can always add an external relief valve before the first valve, and just after the pump output, which will protect the tractor pump.

    Surplus Center - 1/2" NPT 30 GPM 1500-3000 PSI RELIEF VALVE RV-H4

    To protect the hyd chipper motor, add this valve across the chipper motor.

    Surplus Center - 1/2 NPT 30 GPM 1500-3000 PSI HYD CUSHION VALVE

    Since your hyd system pressure is 2300 psi, set all other relief valve to 2300 psi.

    Are you going to send the EF, excess flow to tank or to the hyd flow path?

    Excess flow is any fluid not used by the hyd motor.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  9. #9
    Elite Member dfkrug's Avatar
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    Feb 2004
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    NorCal
    Tractor
    05 Kioti CK30HST w/ Prairie Dog backhoe

    Default Re: Hydraulic Motor Help

    Quote Originally Posted by kruszert View Post
    The tractor is a Kioti DK-35. Hydraulic output is 12.5 gpm, 2300 psi I assume at
    2400 engine rpm. I usually run at a little slower RPM say around 2000.
    A couple of points on using a hyd motor to drive your feed system:

    The DK35SE and the older DK35 tractors put out about 7-9 GPM from the implement pump. You
    have to have the service manual to get he spec. 12.5GPM includes the power steering pump and is
    not useful here.

    Turning 30-odd RPM direct-drive will require a large displacement motor, as mentioned. The price
    goes up a lot when you get north of 5 or 6 cubic inches, and you may need as much a 20 or more
    ci for that low speed. That's huge and spendy.

    So you can use a diverter to slow down a smaller motor (as mentioned), or you can use a chain or
    belt-drive system to do the same. Each costs more.

    Note that common cheap hyd motors, like those from Charlynn-Eaton, or White are limited
    to 2000 psi. That means you need to protect it from your 2300psi, or buy a more expensive
    motor. What I would do is add a conventional AUX hyd spool to your Kioti. This valve will
    be quite useful for other things (hyd toplink, etc), and have its own RV. Set the RV to 2000psi,
    and you will protect your motor. Gear a cheaper motor down with a belt or chain to get
    the speed you want.

    Finally, you will need to think about how you want to control the drive. Modern chippers with
    hyd feed use a safety bar that shuts off the hyd valve quickly if you are being dragged into
    the maw of the chipper. That is why you do not want to power the feed motor with a motor-
    type valve.

    A Vermeer 525 chipper I use operates this way (Charlynn S motor) off of a 25hp engine.
    See my TBN projects at:
    http://mysite.verizon.net/resyfcgt/

  10. #10
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: Hydraulic Motor Help

    kruszert ,

    Have you considered one of the wheel motors like this?

    Surplus Center - 10.3 CU IN ROSS HYD WHEEL MOTOR MB100208AAAF

    Use the above valve to adjust the speed you want. The hyd motor will develop the pressure to get the job done. Install that double relief valve across the motor and you are set to chip.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

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