Help with hydraulics on a bale buster

   / Help with hydraulics on a bale buster #1  

corey9212

Platinum Member
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
748
Location
Red Deer County, AB
Tractor
2015 John Deere 3046R
Hello, I just bought a bale buster for cheap but the previous owner hadn't used it for a few years. The only thing he said was that he marked the lines in pairs (requires 2 sets of scv outlets.) I hooked it up and things aren't working properly.

Firstly the out riggers don't go down together (one goes down and the other goes up), secondly I have to press one scv foreword and the other backwards at the same time to run the hydraulic motor. I provided a couple pics one is how it's supposed to be plumbed and the other is how it's plumbed now. From what I have read (and it makes sense to me) is the first scv runs the motor going one way and the other way lowers the bale fork, the second scv is for the outriggers for stability while loading the bale.
Any help with what's going on and why and how I can fix it would be appreciated (I can provide actual pics if needed as well)

Thank you in advance.
 

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   / Help with hydraulics on a bale buster #2  
If your valve has two spools, it looks like one spool feeds a hyd motor with a variable speed valve.

The other spool operates the two DA cyl outriggers.

The base of the cyl should have a common line connected to a tee with a single line going back to the valve work ports.

The rod end of the cyl should have a common line to each port, going back to a tee and then to the valve work ports.

The valve with the lever speed control sets the rpm of the motor.

One of the spools is the spool that controls the direction of the hyd motor. Is that spool detented or do you have to hold the lever?
 
   / Help with hydraulics on a bale buster
  • Thread Starter
#3  
If your valve has two spools, it looks like one spool feeds a hyd motor with a variable speed valve. The other spool operates the two DA cyl outriggers. The base of the cyl should have a common line connected to a tee with a single line going back to the valve work ports. The rod end of the cyl should have a common line to each port, going back to a tee and then to the valve work ports. The valve with the lever speed control sets the rpm of the motor. One of the spools is the spool that controls the direction of the hyd motor. Is that spool detented or do you have to hold the lever?

Thank you for the fast reply this is one of those things that should be so simple to me but cause I can't figure it out it's constantly running through my mind right now, sorry I'm really new to this and learning the language, is the spool the ports coming out of the tractor? I do know I have a detent on both SCV's that will make the flow constant without needing to hold the switch in the position.

Here is a couple pics to give you an idea of the actual connections. The thing that is confusing me the most is the outriggers, I know the manual said that there is a selective valve but when I googled selective valves they all have either a knob or a lever and this one doesn't have either. Is there such thing as an automatic selective valve (based on direction of flow?)
I do know that the cylinder should never be used without the outriggers being down or the whole thing will roll over.
 

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   / Help with hydraulics on a bale buster #4  
G'day I think you have got your hoses plugged in the wrong way around try swapping just 2 of the hoses around on your tractor outlets


Jon
 
   / Help with hydraulics on a bale buster #5  
Are you using the DA cyl as SA cyl?

You don't seem to have enough hoses, however if you are using the two outrigger as SA cyl that takes one hose if they work in pairs.

Hyd motor uses two hoses. Spool will be open center or a motor spool.

Red cyl moves something.

I see one cyl on the left rigger and nothing on the right.

Outrigger usually have separate control for each cyl.

The selector valve must be on the tractor.

You need continuous hyd flow for the hyd motor, which probably uses a detent spool.

I understand why you would need outriggers, but what does the red cyl do?
 
   / Help with hydraulics on a bale buster #6  
corey9212
Doesn't the "red cylinder" control the amount of hay exiting the machine as bale is being processed? Are the outrigger cylinders suppose to be both extended at the same time? If you had the red cyl & orbit motor hooked up like this diagram(attached 6to one set of tractor remotes) and the outrigger cyl's attached like J-J stated in his first post(attached to 2nd set of remotes) then the BB should operate. The selector valve(1A) in your diagram when moved will direct oil to operate red cyl either/or orbit motor but not both at the same time.
 

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   / Help with hydraulics on a bale buster #7  
Some question Corey9212

1) Is that a "cross" below the selective valve (lines from out rigger rod ends, flow valve, and to tractor)?
2) Any other crosses or tees? Not counting the tee below the selective valve to the head end of the out riggers.

If you number the lines of the tractor connections, left to right 1 to 4, I think 1&4 should go to one tractor SCV and 2&3 to the other. You may have to experiment as to which line goes to the top or bottom of your tractor SCV

The SCV connected to 1&4 would only control the single cylinder.

The SCV connected to 2&3 would be for out riggers and hydraulic motor. The machine's selective valve would first be set to extend the out riggers, then switched to operate the hydraulic motor. Tractor's SCV would be set to dent to hold it in a flow position.
 
   / Help with hydraulics on a bale buster
  • Thread Starter
#8  
G'day I think you have got your hoses plugged in the wrong way around try swapping just 2 of the hoses around on your tractor outlets Jon
I tried swapping the hoses and what ended up happening is the motor ran on one scv and the bale loader ran off of the other there was absolutely no movement at all on the outriggers

Are you using the DA cyl as SA cyl? You don't seem to have enough hoses, however if you are using the two outrigger as SA cyl that takes one hose if they work in pairs. Hyd motor uses two hoses. Spool will be open center or a motor spool. Red cyl moves something. I see one cyl on the left rigger and nothing on the right. Outrigger usually have separate control for each cyl. The selector valve must be on the tractor. You need continuous hyd flow for the hyd motor, which probably uses a detent spool. I understand why you would need outriggers, but what does the red cyl do?
I'm not sure if that's how. It's supposed to act. The outriggers are supposed to work as one (in pairs). It is a motor spool I have to press the button into the detention position to keep the flow moving. I removed the other cylinder to rebuild it, there was a leak so I replaced the seals, it is put back on now. The red cylinder is how the bale gets loaded, it tilts the whole thing onto its side so I can back up to the bale and scoop it onto the forks then it will tip the whole thing back upright and the bale falls into the shredding area. Without the outriggers the frame would flip over as well when I go to load a bale.

corey9212 Doesn't the "red cylinder" control the amount of hay exiting the machine as bale is being processed? Are the outrigger cylinders suppose to be both extended at the same time? If you had the red cyl & orbit motor hooked up like this diagram(attached 6to one set of tractor remotes) and the outrigger cyl's attached like J-J stated in his first post(attached to 2nd set of remotes) then the BB should operate. The selector valve(1A) in your diagram when moved will direct oil to operate red cyl either/or orbit motor but not both at the same time.
No the red cylinder is how the bale gets loaded, the hydraulic motor controls how much hay exits the machine by a conveyor belt. Yes they are. That's what I was thinking and it makes logical sense to me, press the scv one way and the motor runs, press it the other way and the unit tilts to load a bale, press the second scv and the outriggers drop for stability. I don't see any levers or switches or anything on the selector valve that I have to physically move to switch the flow on it.

Some question Corey9212 1) Is that a "cross" below the selective valve (lines from out rigger rod ends, flow valve, and to tractor)? 2) Any other crosses or tees? Not counting the tee below the selective valve to the head end of the out riggers. If you number the lines of the tractor connections, left to right 1 to 4, I think 1&4 should go to one tractor SCV and 2&3 to the other. You may have to experiment as to which line goes to the top or bottom of your tractor SCV The SCV connected to 1&4 would only control the single cylinder. The SCV connected to 2&3 would be for out riggers and hydraulic motor. The machine's selective valve would first be set to extend the out riggers, then switched to operate the hydraulic motor. Tractor's SCV would be set to dent to hold it in a flow position.
1) it is a cross where all those lines connect to each other.
2) There is 3 of them one is the cross going to the bottom of the outriggers, the other is below the selector valve that goes to the upper outriggers, the third is above the flow valve going to the selective valve and to the hydraulic motor. I did try that and one scv activated the loading cylinder and the other ran the motor only, the outriggers didn't budge at all. The selective valve has no knob or handle or anything to switch the flow.
 
   / Help with hydraulics on a bale buster #9  
I tried swapping the hoses and what ended up happening is the motor ran on one scv and the bale loader ran off of the other there was absolutely no movement at all on the outriggers


I'm not sure if that's how. It's supposed to act. The outriggers are supposed to work as one (in pairs). It is a motor spool I have to press the button into the detention position to keep the flow moving. I removed the other cylinder to rebuild it, there was a leak so I replaced the seals, it is put back on now. The red cylinder is how the bale gets loaded, it tilts the whole thing onto its side so I can back up to the bale and scoop it onto the forks then it will tip the whole thing back upright and the bale falls into the shredding area. Without the outriggers the frame would flip over as well when I go to load a bale.


No the red cylinder is how the bale gets loaded, the hydraulic motor controls how much hay exits the machine by a conveyor belt. Yes they are. That's what I was thinking and it makes logical sense to me, press the scv one way and the motor runs, press it the other way and the unit tilts to load a bale, press the second scv and the outriggers drop for stability. I don't see any levers or switches or anything on the selector valve that I have to physically move to switch the flow on it.


1) it is a cross where all those lines connect to each other.
2) There is 3 of them one is the cross going to the bottom of the outriggers, the other is below the selector valve that goes to the upper outriggers, the third is above the flow valve going to the selective valve and to the hydraulic motor. I did try that and one scv activated the loading cylinder and the other ran the motor only, the outriggers didn't budge at all. The selective valve has no knob or handle or anything to switch the flow.

A selective valve that does NOT select? :confused:
I wonder how it works? :confused: Maybe (since no levers or knobs) it is supposed to extend the out riggers, then somehow shift and run the hydraulic motor.
Please post pictures of just the selective valve. Any brand or model tag on it?

I think hoses as 1&4 to a SCV and 2&3 to the other SCV are right. Problem now is in selective valve. If I could not determine how it switches, I would be taking it apart to see how it works.
 
   / Help with hydraulics on a bale buster #10  
Zebrafive
A selector valve similar to the one JD used on 410/510 rd balers for tractors with only one remote valve is what I had in mind that the Bale Buster utilized. I tried & failed to locate a similar valve on Surplus Center. My thinking is with a similar valve switched one way red cylinder operates and switched other way the orbit motor operates.
 

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