Change filters before fluid?

[paine]

My plan is to switch to Amsoil hydro oil but after just buying the tractor and the holidays she doesn't like me spending $250 plus on the oil.

The tractor has a little over 1000 hours, it looks like new and the PO kept the tractor Very clean and even waxed it regularly as I still see wax in the seams. This leads me to believe that he kept up on the maintenance side of things also but I still want to change all fluids.
I bought the hydro filters, OEM filters as I hear that is the way to go. My question is since you never get all of the hydro oil out anyway I am thinking I should just change the filters now and just pull them, dump them out when I change the fluid over to Amsoil in a few months.

The hydro filter that is currently on the tractor looks aftermarket and the hydrostatic filter is OEM.

 

[DK35vince]

Do you put a lot of hours on the machine ??
If it will not be used a lot of hours over the next few months, then I would just wait with the filters and do oil and filters at the same time.

 

[George2615]

You're already putting off the service a few months, just wait and change filters the same time. A few more hours won't make a difference.

 

[IceStationZebra]

If you are that concerned about the tractor, ask your Amsoil guy if the oil you are putting in is prefiltered to 25 micron or less. No oil supplier that I know of filters the oil in 15 gallon or larger containers. (I don't know about smaller containers, though I'm curious) Some local distributors offer it as an additional service.

Realize that all the dirt you add in with new oil has to go thru the pump at least once before it gets filtered out, maybe more if it is cold and the filter is by-passing. Generally the newer the system the more important this is.

In other threads I've strongly suggested that people should filter oil as it is being added, but usually get shot down as being paranoid. I have personally inspected brand new drums with top-of-the-line Mobil hydraulic oil and you wouldn't believe the size and amount of particles floating on the bottom as they were being emptied! I can tell you for a fact that CAT and DEERE take this seriously and have been pushing their dealers to install filtration systems for all the bulk oils. This is also standard practice for large construction and mining maintenance crews.

ISZ

 

[oldnslo]

If you are that concerned about the tractor, ask your Amsoil guy if the oil you are putting in is prefiltered to 25 micron or less. No oil supplier that I know of filters the oil in 15 gallon or larger containers. (I don't know about smaller containers, though I'm curious) Some local distributors offer it as an additional service.

Realize that all the dirt you add in with new oil has to go thru the pump at least once before it gets filtered out, maybe more if it is cold and the filter is by-passing. Generally the newer the system the more important this is.

In other threads I've strongly suggested that people should filter oil as it is being added, but usually get shot down as being paranoid. I have personally inspected brand new drums with top-of-the-line Mobil hydraulic oil and you wouldn't believe the size and amount of particles floating on the bottom as they were being emptied! I can tell you for a fact that CAT and DEERE take this seriously and have been pushing their dealers to install filtration systems for all the bulk oils. This is also standard practice for large construction and mining maintenance crews.

ISZ

ISZ is dead on in his statement that new oil is typically dirty. I have worked with a couple of oil blending stations on filtration systems but these were only used to meet specs for certain OEM's like Cat and Deere. Run of the mill fluids were not filtered near as well as what any HST requires.

 

[BarnieTrk]

ISZ / oldnslo,

I buy my bulk oils in 5-gallon pails - so your earlier statement regarding volumes of less than 15 gallons it is likely filtered gives me some ease, but you're not sure.

How would a small-time user go about filtering their new oil prior to putting it into their tractor/truck?

Any idea what the mesh sizing is on a standard 'petro screen' installed in the throat of my funnel?

BarnieTrk

 

[Looking4new]

ISZ / oldnslo,

I buy my bulk oils in 5-gallon pails - so your earlier statement regarding volumes of less than 15 gallons it is likely filtered gives me some ease, but you're not sure.

How would a small-time user go about filtering their new oil prior to putting it into their tractor/truck?

Any idea what the mesh sizing is on a standard 'petro screen' installed in the throat of my funnel?

BarnieTrk

I would like to see the answers to that as well.

 

[IceStationZebra]

I just looked at a couple of articles where they measured the cleanliness of hydraulic fluid from 5 gallon pails. Contamination codes ranged from 16/14/10 to 20/17/12, with a couple in the 23/20 range. If your tractor has a piston pump the level should be no higher than about 16/14/12. A gear pump can tolerate more dirt but should be kept below the 17/15/13 to 18/16/13 range. Lower is always better and equals longer life.

(4 micron/6 micron/14 micron. For a given micron rating, every increase of one equals a doubling of the number of particles. Therefore a two number increase equals a quadrupling. If you want to research look up "oil cleanliness" and "ISO 4406")

Ideally you would pump the oil thru a series of high beta ratio filters. I've bought and made my own filter carts for this but it is overkill for your needs. I would try to rig a hand pump or small electric pump into a spin-on style filter in the 5-10 micron range.

I've never tried gravity feed but to even get down to a 40 micron filtration level you would need a 400 mesh. A 500-550 mesh is better and would get you down to 25-30 micron range but it is >$140 for a 12"x12" piece! And my guess is it would take a loooong time to flow thru unless you heat it up.

ISZ

 

[oldnslo]

A good filter will have a Beta rating on it. This indicates the effectiveness of this filter in removing particles of a given size on a single pass.
This is listed on the filter as:
Bx = 20 is 95% efficient
Bx = 75 is 98.7% efficient
Bx = 200 is 99.5% efficient
(Do a google search for filter beta ratio explained to get more info.)

B(x) the x in the micron that this filter was rated at. B5 = 20 or this element will will remove 95 out of 100 particles 5 micron in size on single pass.

On most, possibly all of our tractors HST systems I woud be comfortable with using a small filter cart with a B5 = 20 or better filter and single pass filtration. Companies build small 12 VDC pump motor assemblies for use when there is no AC power available. Simple pump, motor, filter and a couple of hoses is all you need. These tractors also have typically have a charge pump filter that filters all of the fluid entering the closed loop HST system. The quality of this filter element is typically unknown since most tractor manufacturers do not put the micron rating or Beta ratio on the element.

Like ISZ states, gravity feed is not an option.

 

[BarnieTrk]

ISZ / oldnslo,

Thanks for taking the time to further explain some filter terminologies and your pumping suggestions. I will need to read your posts a few more times :confused2: :confused2: and maybe look into what systems are out there....Northern Tool, Harbor Freight, etc.

BarnieTrk