New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding

   / New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding #1  

The Nitro

New member
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
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16
Location
NSW
Tractor
New Holland L230 skid steer
Hi, the machine is eh control, 2012.

Trying to work the 4 in one bucket causes issues. Closing bucket, while crowding back and lowering boom as if to pickup an object causes the boom to raise instead of lower.

If i raise booms and fully crowd bucket back and them move joystick forward to lower boom it goes up instead of down. The problem happens if trying to crowd back against relief or trying to close bucket against releif or against my restricter valves ( slows both bucket open and close)

It appears relief pressure oil is getting into the boom raise circuit while the lever is trying to lower the boom.

Any ideas?
Thanks
 
   / New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding #2  
How many hours on machine?
IS the relief valves and restrictor valves OEM or something you added?
Does the boom function normally if not trying to use the 4n1 bucket?
Has this setup EVER worked properly with the 4n1 bucket?
 
   / New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding
  • Thread Starter
#3  
The machine has 150 hrs on it, ive had it since new and i am a rookie operator as this is the only machine ive been on. I put the flow restricters on the back of the bucket in an attempt to slow the grab open/close speed as it was very aggressive. I need to know if theres a problem with the hydraulics or if its normal but even with the bucket removed if i raise boom and then crowd back fully and then attempt to lower boom while still crowding back... The boom goes up instead of down. Its done it the whole time but i just realised yesterday after trying to practice using the 4 in one after seeing a youtube vid of a guy on a takeuchi picking up stuff with his machine. He opened grab crowded forward over trash and then closed bucket while crowding back and lowering boom simultaneously . I tried to do it on my l230 but the boom cant lower while trying to close bucket against my flow restricters or it cant lower if the crowd is pulled back against relief. Is this normal or is there a problem in my control valves? Thanks
 
   / New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Boom works normally and the crowd works normally but if the crowd rams are held on relief then the boom goes up instead of down, same thing with trying to close the grab of bucket which is working against relief too due to my flow restricters in the bucket grab lines.
 
   / New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding
  • Thread Starter
#5  
The boom tries to raise when i try to lower it, it doesnt raise by itself unless i am holding boom down with either the crowd ram against relief or the auxilary (bucket grab) circuit working against relief.
 
   / New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding #6  
I am still having a hard time tying to understand what you are trying to do, or what the machine is actually doing.

When talking about a loader, I have never heard anyone use the term "crowd". Thats typically a backhoe term.

You have curl and dump.

So at this point, I dont know if you are trying to dump the bucket and hold it against the stops, or curl the bucket and hold it against the stops.

Once the bucket is in whatever position (dumped or curled) and is against the stops, what is the reason for holding it there while lowering?
 
   / New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding
  • Thread Starter
#7  
I just want to use the 4 in one bucket to pick up dirt or sticks, rocks etc. ive watched a few videos and it looks like they open the bucket and then "dump" they reach over whatever needs picking up and then they curl back while closing bucket and lowering boom at the same time while reversing machine slightly. This procedure appears to pick up the whole lot. Imagine picking up that last shovelfull of dirt off a pad. My machine cant close the bucket, curl back, and lower boom all at the same time like i have seen other brand machines do on videos. My booms raise up as i try to push them down. I was describing the circumstances that my boom raises by itself even though i am trying to lower it.

From what mike said? About the auxiliary circuit either stalled or dead headed effectively rendered the boom lower circuit useless as it becomes back fed with oil and raises when you try to lower it. Making picking up stuff with my 4 in one bucket impossible if trying to scrape that last bit of dirt up.

Because i have restricted the flow in my aux circuit to bucket grab to compensate for the savage action and lack of "feel" in switch it appears to intefere with normal operation of the boom circuit.???

So there is either something wrong in the control block like a stuck secondary relief valve backfeeding the booms, while ever the bucket curl is under big load and working the relief valve or if the aux circuit has a large load and working the relief valve on its circuit.

The bucket grab can be made to work without hitting relief pressure (which inteferes with boom control) but i would have to remove the flow restricters that i put on. By doing that, i would not be able to control the speed of the bucket grab because the switch for that bucket grab is on the right joystick in a horizontal position and it has no feel to it, its either flat out open or closed. I cant use the button gently enough to control the speed of the grab. 83 litres a minute of hydraulic oil hitting those tiny grab cylinders really gets that 4 in one open quick. Too quick for the useless thumb button to control. A verticle thumb button would be a lot nicer.
 
   / New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding
  • Thread Starter
#8  
I dont need to curl or dump fully amd hold it there... Thats just for diagnostic reasons to try to figure out whats wrong with the boom raise backfeed problem.

The boom is backfed and raises against my wishes whenever these conditions are met:

Bucket curl or dump against relief valve and boom control is in lower position....

Or

Aux hydraulics (bucket grab) is trying to close against relief valve pressure ie either bucket fully closed or trying to close against my installed flow restricters and boom is in the lower position.

I just want it to be able to close the bucket, curl, and lower boom at same time like every other skidsteer can. Lol WITHOUT the boom trying to go up by itself while im trying to lower it over my stuff i want to pickup. Make sense?
 
   / New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding #9  
I just want to use the 4 in one bucket to pick up dirt or sticks, rocks etc. ive watched a few videos and it looks like they open the bucket and then "dump" they reach over whatever needs picking up and then they curl back while closing bucket and lowering boom at the same time while reversing machine slightly. This procedure appears to pick up the whole lot. Imagine picking up that last shovelfull of dirt off a pad. My machine cant close the bucket, curl back, and lower boom all at the same time like i have seen other brand machines do on videos. My booms raise up as i try to push them down. I was describing the circumstances that my boom raises by itself even though i am trying to lower it.

Is it possible, that the action of curling back, is causing the bucket to touch the ground and physically lift the loader arms??

From what mike said? About the auxiliary circuit either stalled or dead headed effectively rendered the boom lower circuit useless as it becomes back fed with oil and raises when you try to lower it. Making picking up stuff with my 4 in one bucket impossible if trying to scrape that last bit of dirt up.

No idea who mike is

Because i have restricted the flow in my aux circuit to bucket grab to compensate for the savage action and lack of "feel" in switch it appears to intefere with normal operation of the boom circuit.???

Possible? Have you tried to remove the restrictors and see if the problem goes away. That would be a HUGE help and determining just what the problem really is.

So there is either something wrong in the control block like a stuck secondary relief valve backfeeding the booms, while ever the bucket curl is under big load and working the relief valve or if the aux circuit has a large load and working the relief valve on its circuit.

Dont know. Try removing the restrictions and go from there. IF the machine isnt operating the way it should....always start by undoing whatever YOU have done to change the operation of the machine.

At that point, if there is still the issue....then you can rule out anything that you have done.

IF the boom is raise, and you are operating the control to try to LOWER the boom.....the rod side port of the lift cylinders should be getting full machine pressure to work with. The base end of those cylinders should be open to tank. Thus the boom should lower. I certainly wouldnt think that a little residual pressure riding on a relief valve would cause enough pressure in the tank circuit to overcome the force trying to lower the boom.

When lowering, are you perhaps in a "float" mode and not actually trying to force the loader down. Not sure if your machine (or skidloaders in general) have float on their loaders like utility tractors do. But just something else to check out.
 
   / New Holland L230 boom raises while crowding
  • Thread Starter
#10  
im a noob rookie this is the only skid ive owned or been on which i use here on the farm so my control inputs are probably wrong for what im trying to achieve. Thats what im trying to figure out. Or if there is something wrong with the machine.

I took bucket completely off and then raised boom off the ground. My control joystick is set to iso mode in full electric. If i attempt to curl back fully while lowering boom by moving joystick hard left and hard forward ( diagonal forward left) the boom will raise instead of lower. Is this normal or not?

The same thing happens if i attempt to push joystick straight forward while using the aux button (no attachment connected to aux ports simulating dead head or relief pressure test which is similar to my bucket having the restricters)

I am not in float mode.
 
 
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