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  1. #1
    Bronze Member hbarski's Avatar
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    3930 Ford/Newholland Mitsubishi MT2001D CASE 580 CK

    Default hydraulic schematics

    I know that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, therefore I am asking for clarification on hydraulics for a grapple. I have tried to search the forums, and have not been able to find the information I am looking for. Hopefully, the forum will continue to provide me with a limitless depth of knowledge.

    I have 3930 New Holland with a 7209 FEL that is controlled with a 2-spool prince valve/single joystick. I cannot tell if it is a power beyond valve. It does have a port labeled BYD that is plugged.

    The tractor also has rear remotes that control the top -n- tilt cylinders. It is a smaller valve but is like the FEL valve except it has a port that is labeled PB, and it too is plugged.

    I am trying to visualize the schematic for what I would need to do in order to add a grapple to the FEL. I am confused about all the talk of diverters, flow multipliers and directional solenoids. Is there a simplier way to visualize these different scenarios?

    I would like to be able to control the grapple from the joystick if possible. I have a lot of brush cleanup to do.

    Your help would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: hydraulic schematics

    hbarski,
    <font color="blue"> (I am confused about all the talk of diverters, flow multipliers and directional solenoids. Is there a simplier way to visualize these different scenarios?)

    <font color="black"> There are several ways to accomplish what you want to do.
    The diverter is a valve that connects to your existing rear hydraulic outlets, I have seen these divided upwards of eight times. When the existing outlet is activated you use a button to select where you want the fluid diverted to. For simplicity sakes think about you garden hose. The hose on your home is your existing rear hydraulic connector. If you want to connect more than one hose to the end you buy one of those "y" valves at the hardware store. This is the diverter. When you turn the hose on (activate your rear SCV) you now have one supply and a choice of two hose outlets.
    The directional valve would be used on your power beyond circuit. It is the same concept as the diverter accept the fluid is constantly flowing through the valve. When you activate the valve it directs the flow to the work ports (the other outlets). These can also be set up to divert to many different outlets.
    The solenoids in both cases are just the mechanism that activates the valve when you push the button.

    Hope this helps. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

    Ron

  3. #3
    Advertiser kennyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: hydraulic schematics

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( I would like to be able to control the grapple from the joystick if possible </font><font color="blue" class="small">(

    The absolute best way to do this is with a electric diverter, it basically takes the curl circuit, and splits it into two different circuits. So the joystick works the same, left and right operation curls/dumps the bucket. When you push a switch on the joystick, the left and right now operates the grapple.
    There are kits you can buy, or you can make your own as several of us have done. Expect to pay about $400-500 for this setup. nothing about hydraulics are cheap!

  4. #4
    Bronze Member hbarski's Avatar
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    Default Re: hydraulic schematics

    OK, so a directional control valve that is plumbed into the power beyond circuit would have continious pressure available, without relying on a secondary input? That is I could operate all three axis ( lift, curl, grapple) at the same time if desired?

    This would be more desirable to me. The next question is concerning the power beyond circuits. I am assuming that this is like a pressure manifold? I basically understand aviation hydraulics. Pressure, suction/return, and bypass. If I can relate to that, I would grasp the concepts quicker.( sorry, it's the old polack(dog), new trick thing)

    How do I determine if the prince spool valve is capable of power beyond? Are the ports that are labelled [BYD] and [PB] these power beyond circuits (pressure manifolds)?

    What, if any additional plug is required there? How do I route return fluid from the grapple cylinder? What about bypass fluid?

    Can anyone show me a simplified schematic?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: hydraulic schematics

    OK, so a directional control valve that is plumbed into the power beyond circuit would have continious pressure available, without relying on a secondary input? That is I could operate all three axis ( lift, curl, grapple) at the same time if desired?
    //

    I don't think so unless you have a closed center hydraulic system. Can you raise and dump at the same time now ?
    Ben

  6. #6
    Bronze Member hbarski's Avatar
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    Default Re: hydraulic schematics

    Yes, I can raise/lower, and curl/drop at the same time.

    per surpluscenter catalog, and image attached.


    2 Spool Joystick
    Valve w/Float
    ITEM 9-4782
    $227.50 Brand new PRINCE. Two spool joystick valve for operating double acting cylinders. Ideal for use on front end loaders, lift trucks, and other mobile equipment. The two spools can be operated independently or simultaneously
    depending on handle movement. First spool float. Open center. Spring centering.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
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    Default Re: hydraulic schematics

    The Prince valve you listed is capable of power beyond functionality. You have to purchase the power beyond sleeve and install it where the plugged port labeled [byd] is. The other outlet port now becomes the return to tank line which is used for exhausted work port fluid. The power beyond port will be used to connect to the inlet of the next valve in the circuit.

    If there are no more valves after the joystick valve then power beyond functionality is not needed. It all depends on how the hydraulic circuit(s) on your tractor is/are plumbed. Most tractors have a hydraulic implement circuit that goes from the tank to the pump to the loader valve to the 3pt and back to the tank.

  8. #8
    Bronze Member hbarski's Avatar
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    Default Re: hydraulic schematics

    I had you close there, but you lost me again.

    "The other outlet port now becomes the return to tank line which is used for exhausted work port fluid"

    What other outlet port are we talking about? I don't recall seeing any other outlet ports. I have tried to draw the system as it is now. Where do I port the return fluid?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    Elite Member
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    Default Re: hydraulic schematics

    Currently, the valve has an inlet port, an outlet port, and 4 work ports (the work ports connect to the cylinders). By removing the plug and inserting the power beyond sleeve, you now have added an additional outlet port. This port is the power beyond port that allows fluid to flow to the next valve. The "old" outlet port is still there and now becomes the return to tank port, and you still have the the inlet port.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: hydraulic schematics

    Power Beyond output goes to input of new valve, Out of new valve T's into the Out of existing valve. New valve doesn't need Power Beyond unless you add a 3rd valve. Work ports go to cylinders.

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