Having a weird electrical issue with my G194

[hcforde]

If the battery is hooked up it cranks without the key being turned on. Therefore I never have the chance to heat the glow plug. Even if I turn the key to on no lights come on but it is cranking.

Any ideas of what this is or where to start looking?

Thanks

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Check starter solenoid. There shouldn't be 12v going to it. If there is it is a switch/wiring problem. If there isn't the solenoid is mechanically stuck on.

 

[hcforde]

Check starter solenoid. There shouldn't be 12v going to it. If there is it is a switch/wiring problem. If there isn't the solenoid is mechanically stuck on.

OK Len, I was wondering about that. My relay switch just clicks so it has to be started by shorting the starter. NOW. I can get it started but the bendix stays engaged unless i disconnect the battery. So is this mechanical or electrical? I sent you an email this afternoon. A car guy said I may need to check the alternator to see if it is working correctly.

Looking forward to your reply.

Thanks

 

[hcforde]

Check starter solenoid. There shouldn't be 12v going to it. If there is it is a switch/wiring problem. If there isn't the solenoid is mechanically stuck on.

How do you check the solenoid?

 

[Coyote machine]

To answer how to check the solenoid, when the battery cables are connected does the starter begin cranking the engine and not release? If so, carefully hit the side of the solinoid's casing with a dead blow hammer so as to not damage the solenoid's metal casing: it sits on top of the starter, AFTER having disconnected the negative battery cable at it's post on top of the battery.
Reconnect the negative battery cable and see if the starter is still cranking with the ignition switch off, key removed, and brake set, tractor in neutral. Here's what I would do IF the starter still cranks with no key input, etc.: Disconnect the battery ground from the battery negative post. Make sure you tractor is in neutral, key off/removed from switch, brake on.
The solenoid rests on top of the starter. It will have two big nuts (1/2") or close to this size, a copper ground wire on one, and other wire(s) going to the top post. Disconnect all wires going to the solenoid's topnut/post that aren't the ground wire, and put them aside. Make sure they can't contact any metal. Tape them with electrical tape if needed.
Reconnect your battery ground cable. See if anything happens - like engine cranking.
If nothing happens disconnect your battery ground cable- like earlier. Check for any frayed wires or melted wires that may be stuck together at the starter area, and going to/from your ignition switch, fuse block, starter relay, etc. If you do not find anything burnt/frayed, or blown fuses or damaged starter relay, (most likely on your firewall), then do the following:
Remove your entire starter and take it to a starter/alternator test/rebuild shop- if one still exists in your area; or a reliable auto parts store to test the starter for an internal short, or similar problem with the starter/solenoid, etc.
Post back results or further questions.

 

[Coyote machine]

Regarding your alternator if what you're saying is: to get the tractor to run you jump the starter solenoid and then remove the negative battery cable to stop the starter from continuing to crank the engine over - stop doing that and fix the issue. By disconnecting the negative cable from the battery with the engine running you can fry your alternator diodes and cause it to output too much voltage back to your battery. That could lead to overvoltage, (above 14.5 Volts) to cause battery explosion from overcharging. When you've removed the negative battery cable from it's post does the Bendix stop engaging the flywheel?

 

[hcforde]

Regarding your alternator if what you're saying is: to get the tractor to run you jump the starter solenoid and then remove the negative battery cable to stop the starter from continuing to crank the engine over - stop doing that and fix the issue. By disconnecting the negative cable from the battery with the engine running you can fry your alternator diodes and cause it to output too much voltage back to your battery. That could lead to overvoltage, (above 14.5 Volts) to cause battery explosion from overcharging. When you've removed the negative battery cable from it's post does the Bendix stop engaging the flywheel?

Yeah, It is not like I am wanting to do that. I am getting this back in service after 2 years of sitting in my garage.The starter relay is the primary problem I believe. After having the alternator checked at a car parts shop (it had an output of 11.8 volts)I took the alternator to a alternator/starter repair shop about 2:00pm this afternoon. The guy there gave me confidence that he knew what he was doing. He took one look and pegged it as an old tractor alternator. So tomorrow morning I am taking off the starter and having him look at it also. The starter relay is the primary issue I believe though, all it does is click when I try to start the tractor. The only way to start it has been to short the solenoid. (I bought it this way) The bendix staying stuck is a new issue.

Thanks for the info, very enlightning.

 

[Coyote machine]

No problem, you're welcome. Basically an older or even a brand new alternator needs to put out more voltage than a battery has drawn from it's state of charge. Up to a point when a 12Volt battery is given too much charge and the electrolyte starts to boil and gases escape the battery case, then at a point BOOM! Acid and flying shards of plastic everywhere. I've seen it happen when the machine's voltage regulator did NOT regulate the voltage back to the battery, and then one can see overvoltage to 17-18 volts and watch out, case bulging and eventual explosion.

I agree that the starter relay could be your issue, but since the starter has sat for years the starter could be in need of disassembly and cleaning, need brushes, whatever, and bench testing.
I suggest removing the starter relay, AFTER taking pic of the location of all attaches wires and each wires color. Take the cover off, look for burnt contacts and see if you can determine the wiring schematic. Most quality auto stores will have a selection of basic relays that might fit the switching pattern of your relay.

Here is a random start circuit relay pinout, NOTE 50 amps rated:
show tractor start circuit diagram - Google Search

So, in order to get a replacement relay you need to know how many amps it's rated at so it will handle what the starter needs to start the engine without burning up the wiring. Usually somewhere around 30-50 amps.

So, game plan: If it were mine, I'd start at the ignition switch and follow each wire from the back of the switch to it's termination point. Look for chafing, cracking and broken insulation, exposed wires, melted together wires, and any corrosion, etc., all through each component of the harness for the alternator, starter, starter relay and entire fuse block. Any loose wires that can be easily pulled from the posts/terminals or solder points of any piece of the system. Then take you battery to a store and have it fully charged; then have a load test performed. If they tell you they can load test it accurately before fully charging it then letting it sit before the test for at least an hour, walk away and go elsewhere. Test each cell for it's specific gravity and this will, with the load test tell you the state of the batteries life. If it has sat for years it might possibly be toast along with other components of your tractor.
Can you show any pics of the tractor, and it's wiring?
Report back results/ questions, etc.

 

[hcforde]

No problem, you're welcome. Basically an older or even a brand new alternator needs to put out more voltage than a battery has drawn from it's state of charge. Up to a point when a 12Volt battery is given too much charge and the electrolyte starts to boil and gases escape the battery case, then at a point BOOM! Acid and flying shards of plastic everywhere. I've seen it happen when the machine's voltage regulator did NOT regulate the voltage back to the battery, and then one can see overvoltage to 17-18 volts and watch out, case bulging and eventual explosion.

I agree that the starter relay could be your issue, but since the starter has sat for years the starter could be in need of disassembly and cleaning, need brushes, whatever, and bench testing.
I suggest removing the starter relay, AFTER taking pic of the location of all attaches wires and each wires color. Take the cover off, look for burnt contacts and see if you can determine the wiring schematic. Most quality auto stores will have a selection of basic relays that might fit the switching pattern of your relay.

Here is a random start circuit relay pinout, NOTE 50 amps rated:
show tractor start circuit diagram - Google Search

So, in order to get a replacement relay you need to know how many amps it's rated at so it will handle what the starter needs to start the engine without burning up the wiring. Usually somewhere around 30-50 amps.

So, game plan: If it were mine, I'd start at the ignition switch and follow each wire from the back of the switch to it's termination point. Look for chafing, cracking and broken insulation, exposed wires, melted together wires, and any corrosion, etc., all through each component of the harness for the alternator, starter, starter relay and entire fuse block. Any loose wires that can be easily pulled from the posts/terminals or solder points of any piece of the system. Then take you battery to a store and have it fully charged; then have a load test performed. If they tell you they can load test it accurately before fully charging it then letting it sit before the test for at least an hour, walk away and go elsewhere. Test each cell for it's specific gravity and this will, with the load test tell you the state of the batteries life. If it has sat for years it might possibly be toast along with other components of your tractor.
Can you show any pics of the tractor, and it's wiring?
Report back results/ questions, etc.

The alternator guy called and said the rectifier was bad they are going to rebuild it for $80.00 including bearings.

 

[Coyote machine]

The alternator guy called and said the rectifier was bad they are going to rebuild it for $80.00 including bearings.

Yeah, not an uncommon problem, possibly caused by disconnecting the ground cable while engine was running, but could have been something that got fried before you owned it too. The rectifier converts alternating to DC current which the battery and wiring on your tractor need to run.
Does it have a built in voltage regulator too?

BTW, there is still something wrong with your starter, and or your wiring, so before risking doing damage to you newly rebuilt alternator check all of it out from ignition switch through the entire harness. You have no idea what the prior owner did to it, right?

Pics? Hours on your rig?