New v. Old - Apples & Oranges

[Jason977]

I'm shopping for a new tractor because my ol' faithful Farmall Super C isn't up to the tasks at my new property. My main desires are more power, live pto, better hydraulics, and an FEL. The tractor I'm leaning towards the most is the Deere 3320, but I'm a little concerned that I'll be left wanting more hp, because it's similar to the Farmall (with 23.6 @ the pto). I'm not sure how valid of a comparison this is though, because the torque of the diesel is surely double that of the old gas engine. Any thoughts?
Horsepower wise, the Farmall has struggled in high grass with my 5' bush hog, disking with my ~5' disk, and pulling heavy logs around. I've had to do all this work in 1st gear, because that's all she would pull. Weight wise, it's comparable to the JD, and probably has similar traction with ag tires and good weight transfer.
I think I've read nearly all the posts here regarding the 3x20 tractors, and I'm still not sure if I should pony up the $2gs for more power. I thought this comparison to my known quantity may be insightful. Anyone done similar ground engaging work back to back with something new vs. old Xn Ford, for example?

Thanks!
Jason

[deerchop]

We had an old 2000 ford for years. I bought a new 3520 a couple years ago almost now. I have about 150 hours on it and it is like comparing a new Caddilac to a model t as far as I am concerned. The old 2000 would make me dread the work but now I am always looking for a reason to get on the 3520. I bought the MX5 heavy cutter for it and so far it has cut everything i have put it on. Sometimes in super thick grass it will bog a little but that's about it, it will get another breath and then cut it up especially with the powermatch on which I never turn off. The 4 wheel drive just turns it into another machine completely and I use it often even when bush hogging to keep the front end going where I point it. Get the cx loader it is very nice also. The dealer may bring it out and let you try it if you are serious, they did for me and left it for the weekend but it never went back.

[shot_gun]

Jason if you can afford it, read my signature.

[Jason977]

Shot_Gun:
There are all different levels to "afford" aren't there?

I've already ruled out the 3120, now it's just a matter of spending another 2 or 4k $50 or $100/month with JDs 36/0% financing. I could probably make that up by brown baggin' it to work for 3 yrs

I have heard arguments for the large N/A engine, but no valid concerns other than allowing the turbo to cool before shutting down. I make it a habit of allowing ample warm up and cool down time anyway.

Deerchop:
I've driven a friend's 3320, and it's a Cadillac, no doubt. Would you say your new machine feels much more powerful, even though it is not much different numerically?

Sounds like I'm getting the extra encouragement I need to at least go 3520...

[shot_gun]

I just didn't want you to get the " I wish I had a little more umpf" I liken the analogy to my motorcycle. When bought it it had power enogh to get the job done. Then I added saddle bags fairings and it wasn't quite enough. I went with a minimal upgrade on the engine because I though that is all that I needed. Well three engine upgrades later I spent 5k to do a 3k job over 5 years. The guy who did the first job almost begged me to do the right thing the first time but I said no thanks. So I paid for it in the end. I just didn't want you to end up in the same situation. I know it's not right for everyone but give it some thought.

[ChuckinNH]

This whole think kind of makes me wonder why Deere would even offer so many tractors that just don't have enough horsepower to get the job done. Perhaps it is all a clever marketing strategy to get folks to buy underpowered tractors, and then upgrade soon after? That would create more tractor sales, and generate more profit for everyone I guess.

[deerchop]

The 3520 hydro is very stout, I would not say it is a lot more powerful than the old ford gas burner but I believe it would drag it all over the field hooked back to back because of the 4wd. I always have the powermatch and 4wd turned on whenever I am plowing or even hogging just because it goes where you tell it to and not like the old 2wd that sometimes had a mind of it's own when you had big weight on the back. The 3520 has pulled a 2 bottom breaking plow and broke up 5 acres of pasture that was in coastal and bahaia for years and that is saying a lot. It did have a couple moments during that where it overstarined the hydro and it gave up but the 2 16" plows were about 18" deep and buried up to the frame almost. I just had to raise it a little and keep on trucking, I was trying to cut it about 8" deep but when I hit a little rise it would sink the plow. I have disked with it more than anything and it has no problem's at all dragging a 5' disk buried up to the axle of the disk. I have not bush hogged a lot with it, maybe 10 hours but so far it has done fine in everything I have cut and some of the stuff is 6'-7' high but mainly briars and lighter stuff. Super thick grass might bog it but we have hay cut so I don't get to cut that very often. I also have a 5' Covington planter that I planted corn and stuff with and it has 6 plow on it and it pulled just fine dragging 6 anchors behind it and just pulverizing the ground. I would buy the machine again no questions asked but I would spend the money for the cab this time and go with the 3720 for the power difference for the A/C, it was 98 here yesterday. Hope this helps, good luck.

[Jason977]

deerchop,
Thanks for the info, that's exactly what I was looking for. The ground engaging work that you do is probably the most HP and traction taxing work that I've heard reported for the 3520. Are you running ag or r4 tires? I've read all those threads too, and still a little unsure. If you're doing all this work with r4s, I'm sold.

My option list now:
Ehydro trans, Large R4 tires, 300cx loader/ bucket delete. For the bucket I'm probably going to go with the Frontier 4n1. I'll order and install rear SCV and lines up the loader myself. Dealer quoted me outrageous labor for install, and I'd enjoy doing that myself anyway.

Chuck,
Considering all the tractors in the 3x20 series are similar weight and lifting capacity, I think even the 27hp model is adequate for non ground engaging work. What aggravates me about JD is the price jumps between models that's hardly justified by the extra hardware. It doesn't seem like I should have to pay 4 grand for a turbo(3520) and yet another 2k for an intercooler and different injectors(3720). I'm dismissing the 3320 in this comparison, since it's a different block. Just playing devil's advocate though. I've never regretted buying the $4500+ optional Duramax in my truck, and I doubt I'll regret upgrading the engine in my tractor for a few more hp. The whine is a fortunate bonus, too

[swines]

Originally Posted by ChuckinNH

This whole think kind of makes me wonder why Deere would even offer so many tractors that just don't have enough horsepower to get the job done. Perhaps it is all a clever marketing strategy to get folks to buy underpowered tractors, and then upgrade soon after? That would create more tractor sales, and generate more profit for everyone I guess.

And this observation is based upon...?

I have a 3320 and it will spin all 4 tires long before it runs out of power. A 3520 or a 3720 is for PTO work, or if you want a cab. The tractors weigh nearly the same (3320, 3520, 3720). The cab will add additional weight. With a cab you need to run the air conditioner - that takes more power.

I had my 3320 working with a Harley Rake in extremely hard ground. The tractor would pull the rake up hill (about a 15 degree grade), until it started spinning all 4 wheels - now, neither a 3520 or 3720 would have made any difference - as it had nothing to do with the amount of power available, but the ability to couple it to the ground.

If you want to run large mowers, do other PTO intensive work, or want a cab - the 3520 or 3720 would do much better than the 3320. When you run out of traction the additional horsepower is meaningless.

I have run a 5-foot rotary cutter with my 3320, and easily chopped 5-foot high 4-wing salt bush with stems approaching 1.5 inches in diameter. In fact, I hit a straw bail buried in the middle of one, and the load match just slowed the tractor and applied more power to the PTO - I shredded the bush and the straw bail and the tractor never bogged down - it just slowed forward speed.

Get the job done...? Under powered...?

[ChuckinNH]

That was a side of the mouth comment, sorry. I feel that all those tractors will do what needs to be done by a tractor that size. More Hp is good for PTO applications of course, and for strictly ground engaging tasks I would choose a transmission other than E-Hydro, and R-1 tires for sure. My opinion, and money will buy you a cup of coffee though.