Unhappy about Starting at High Altitude

[Mech]

Sent this email to JD. No answer yet but wondered if you think I'm being too picky? I'll let you know if/when JD responds.

I bought a new 790 with loader, box blade and front blade last year. It now has 50 hours on it. I live at 8600 feet and it will not start unless I use the block heater or the intake heat. Last night my block heater burned up and I've ordered another one for $60. Now the dealer is telling me it probably needs to have the timing changed and it is going to be big $'s to get that done as I'm 90 minutes from the closest dealer. I think it is outrageous that I buy a brand new tractor and it won't start in any temperature w/o a cold starting aid which burned up in less than a year. Is JD interesting in somehow making this good?

[tomd999]

Hi,

What's "normal temperature" where you are? If it's under 50, it's not that out of line that it would require cold start system usage. How does it start after being used and it's still warm? Also, using a fuel additive that boosts cetane will aid in cold starting.

Hope that helps,

Tom

[Mech]

It needs the block heater or intake heat at all temperatures. Highest it gets here is about 85 deg F. Over 70 during the day for most of the summer.

I do use a fuel additive and it hasn't made a difference.

It starts easily after running for more than a minute or two. Runs great after it warms up.

I was willing to live with it until a dealer (another dealer not mine who has always said just keep it plugged in) told me that they had to do a timing change for others in the mountains. My dealer knew my altitude and I felt they should have done that for me or at least not just kept saying to keep it plugged in.

If I'm going to go thru a $60 block heater ever year I would like to get it fixed but I don't want to spend a $500 to $600 service fee for it. I could just use the block heater for the coldest nights and use the intake heat at other times but I don't know how long that element will last and I would guess it is more than $60.

[bx24]

Older over the road trucks used to have Ether start bottles on them. I wonder if you hooked one of these up if it would work for you (and save you a bunch of bucks). You have to be careful not to use more than a small "squirt", but it made a world of difference in starting larger engines.

This is what I found when I did a quick search .... sorry no prices but I bet it is less than $100 bucks

Good luck

[bx24]

Here is another company (with a phone number) .... See what they think

[Racer71]

I live at 7,000 and I can't believe the altitude makes that much difference. It should light right up with glow plugs. Maybe a block heater under 30. Any heating element should last more than 1 year. The equipment is designed to last 30 years. Does the engine have a turbo?

[Mech]

Originally Posted by bx24

Here is another company (with a phone number) .... See what they think

Thanks for this. I need to check whether it will void the warrantee but if not it might be an alternative.

[Mech]

Originally Posted by Racer71

I live at 7,000 and I can't believe the altitude makes that much difference. It should light right up with glow plugs. Maybe a block heater under 30. Any heating element should last more than 1 year. The equipment is designed to last 30 years. Does the engine have a turbo?

No turbo and no glow plugs. This engine just has an intake heater. I had a Yanmar 1610 last year, just a smaller version of the 790, that acted the same way and the dealer ended up taking it back. It had other problems but I thought the starting problem with it was low compression. Looks like it was just the altitude. We discussed this on this forum before and someone said they had diesel engines in Aspen that required an altitude compensation turbo to start. I checked on those and they are cost prohibitive. Looks like I just use the cold start aids, ether or get the timing adjusted.

[tomd999]

Hiya,


Whow, don't use a quick start kit on that little Deere, you'll run the risk of making some bad things happen. Those quick start kits were made for the older Diesels in the 60's and 70's like a Detroit 71 series. The injector pumps and injectors were lower pressure and they would suffer from poor cold starting.

I looked on the Deere and Yanmar site and the engine listed for the 3005 is a DI type so it should light right off after a few seconds of cranking. I have found with the DI engines I run is if the primary fuel system has an issue they tend to be tough starting after they sit for a day or 2. The Cummins B series suffers from this issue if the lift pump or the primary low pressure supply line leaks down.

Check your supply side from the tank cap all the way to the low pressure supply port on the injector pump. Make sure you have the pressure and flow specs right. You may have a leak down issue where the supply to the pump drains down away from the injector inlet and your cranking for several seconds until the low pressure supply restores fuel to the injector pump and therein supplies high pressure fuel to the injectors.

Hope it helps,

Tom

[shot_gun]

I have a couple thoughts... If the block heater was installed by the dealer it should be covered under warranty. Travel time won't but be the job should be. Unless you bought MPP. Ether is for emergency only. I've seen the rings in a tractor look like someone took a torch to them because of ether. Time may help but I would want to check the timing first to verify it is were it should be. I would ask your dealer to put in a DTAC case on it if he hasn't already. That is the dealer resource when they have an oddity they can't figure out. 50 hours is time for your fist service. Maybe let the dealer do everything in one shot? Your problem must altitude related because even when it's cold here the 790's still start with just the preheat. Granted we are only 120 feet above sea level Let your dealer do their job.