Unhappy about Starting at High Altitude

[Superduper]

Originally Posted by swines

If you have a 3120 compact utility tractor, and think you have a glow plug system, I'd suggest you read the owner's manual:

You have an intake air heater system just like all the Yanmar engine based 3000 series tractors you DO NOT have glow plugs.

By Golly, you're right! I always thought I had it because it starts so easily each time.... Besides, I operated it like every diesel truck I ever owned (turned key to run, wait for click and lights to extinguish, then start) and it worked flawlessly. So now I understand and more fully appreciate Mech's delimema.

If the altitude at 8600 feet makes that much difference with starting ability, and it appears be a common problem due to your other experience, then I'd say that your dealer probably can't be faulted as the tractor is not technically defective per se. You have the priviledge of living in a unique environment that few people ever will experience and with unique settings, comes unique costs specific to those conditions. I have found that this is a fact common to most things in life. I guess you have a few choices: new block heater, use the intake air heating system, or have the timing adjusted to compensate. Perhaps the engine can be retrofitted with a glow plug system although again, that is probably not going to be cheap. The best solution is probably the addition of a turbo which will help to compensate for the thin air. However, the simplest solution for you might simply be to replace the heater (get a spare) when it goes out. It requires NO tractor transportation costs and once you've done it a few times, will become second nature.... another maintenance cost for the high altitude priviledge. Think of it as akin to replacing brake pads and clutches more frequently when living in hilly terrain or living with rusted panels when living in wet areas.

[Mech]

I called my salesman to discuss the problem and see if the block heater was under warrantee. He didn't answer so I left a very nice message. I just got a call from someone else at the dealership and they said they will pick up the tractor in a week to replace the block heater and adjust the timing! Not sure what has changed -- John Deere called them, I finally complained enough, they read this forum... but I'm not asking any questions and if this works out I might start buying by parts and my next tractor there.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I am in a unique environment but heck the dealership is probably at 6000 feet and there are a lot of people that live at and above 8000 feet in Colorado and use these tractors for snow plowing and grading, so it is part of the equipment business here.

[855Idiot]

My 855 starts easily at 7400ft.
Real cold temps make it take longer though.

[shot_gun]

Sorry had one last thought. Put your block heater on a timer to come on one hour before you use it. It works for our yard tractor JD5410 and the rollback. Just a thought. Saves on electric bills and your not leaving the block heater on all the time. It might extend the life of the block heater alittle. Good to hear your dealer is going to take care of you. JD will get everybody on the same page!

[Superduper]

Sounds encouraging. Keep us posted.

[Mech]

Originally Posted by shot_gun

Sorry had one last thought. Put your block heater on a timer to come on one hour before you use it. It works for our yard tractor JD5410 and the rollback. Just a thought. Saves on electric bills and your not leaving the block heater on all the time. It might extend the life of the block heater alittle. Good to hear your dealer is going to take care of you. JD will get everybody on the same page!

I did try that during the winter but this thing takes a lot longer than an hour to warm up the block enough to make a difference. I have to say that I did not really experiment to see just how long. If the injector timing doesn't work out I will definitely try the timer again.

thanks,

[Mech]

Well I decided to call the dealer to find out what they were planning to do with the tractor. Turns out they were going to charge me a trip charge to get it so I asked to talk to their mechanic to understand what they were going to do. He tells me that injector timing won't help with the starting that I need to use the block heater or the intake heat whenever the motor is cold no matter what the temperature. So I guess I'm going to give up on this, put a new block heater in this weekend, put the block heater on a timer and use the intake heat if the timer hasn't gotten it warm enough by the time I need to use it.

[California]

The best solution is probably the addition of a turbo which will help to compensate for the thin air.

That can't help cold starts. There is no exhaust pressure to spin the turbo.

[shot_gun]

I guess I'm going to give up on this, put a new block heater in this weekend, put the block heater on a timer and use the intake heat if the timer hasn't gotten it warm enough by the time I need to use it.

Make sure the heating element is orientated right so that the element doesn't touch anything iside the block. Essential for long life. I was thinking about the timing and I wasn't sure how changing the timing would raise the heat in the engine. A diesel needs heat from compresion, fuel and air to start. Raising the compression would help. Raising the cetane should help make the fuel burn easier(lower tempature). Once it is out of warranty I might raise the pressure on the injector nozzels just to see if would help. Do you have any good diesel specialist around? I very intrigued by your problem. It's been 20 years since I had engine dynamics. I think I'm going to go through my books if I can find them. Keep us abreast of your situation. I'm curious.