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  1. #11
    Elite Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    JD 4255/Kubota M7040 HDC

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by buickanddeere View Post
    A diesel, a gas turbine or a non throttled boiler has lousy part load fuel efficiency. Too much unused air swept throught the combustion chamber and out the stack without participating in combustion.
    As posted on the "other" site. A five cylinder provides the vibration and noise of a four cylinder with the fuel efficiency of a six.
    Glen
    FYI I concluded I get a broader set of replies by posting my question on more than one forum. Answer your question: Which is more fuel efficient performing the same task the 4 or 5 cyl engine?? BTW I thought 5 cyl didn't vibrate therefore required no balancer shafts similar to a 4 cyl.

  2. #12
    Elite Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Here's one of the replies on the "other forum" that b&d was referring to that I copied & pasted.

    Jim, I don't know why they went to 5 cyl. in those models. The same engine is also used in some of the bigger frame skid steer loaders. I can't tell you if they changed anything or not from the engines in the 5020 and 5025 series tractors or not. The 5 cylinders that were in them were junk. Those same motors were also used in a few of the 300 series skid steer loaders. All of them would leak water around the water pump( can't replace just the pump, its built into the front cover), Leak at the intake/valve cover, melting pistons, injectors cracking etc. I just can't see what was suppose to be better about these engines????

  3. #13
    Platinum Member
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    cx70,5510,4630,5005

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    seems like i read that engine is made in australia. it must have been cheaper to make than the older ones.one benefit to that engine is the tractors have a longer wheelbase.

  4. #14
    Elite Member AKfish's Avatar
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    Kasilof, Alaska
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    JD 5075M; JD 110 TLB; Ford Ferguson 9N: JD X300R

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Deere has used that engine in some of their excavators as well. It's been around for a number of years. I'd have to say that if Deere experienced the level of "problems" that the poster from the "other" forum indicated -- I would have little doubt that Deere would have moved pretty quickly to another powerplant...

    AKfish
    "Most people want to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it."

  5. #15
    Elite Member AKfish's Avatar
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    JD 5075M; JD 110 TLB; Ford Ferguson 9N: JD X300R

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    If you're really interested to know "why" Deere would go with the 5-cylinder engine vs the older, 3-cyl and 4-cyl models... take a look at these -- http://tractortestlab.unl.edu/deere/5075e.pdf

    http://tractortestlab.unl.edu/deere/5075m.pdf

    http://tractortestlab.unl.edu/deere/5085m.pdf

    The 5-cylinder generates considerably more torque than the equivalent 3-cylinder at a lower rpm and less fuel. As well, the 5-cylinder 75hp engine generates as much torque as the 85hp 279 cu. in. 4-cylinder used in the 85hp M.

    It's an efficient powerplant. High torque with a very high torque rise. With less fuel.

    AKfish
    "Most people want to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it."

  6. #16
    Platinum Member Edward. S's Avatar
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    John Deere

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKfish View Post
    If you're really interested to know "why" Deere would go with the 5-cylinder engine vs the older, 3-cyl and 4-cyl models... take a look at these -- http://tractortestlab.unl.edu/deere/5075e.pdf

    http://tractortestlab.unl.edu/deere/5075m.pdf

    http://tractortestlab.unl.edu/deere/5085m.pdf

    The 5-cylinder generates considerably more torque than the equivalent 3-cylinder at a lower rpm and less fuel. As well, the 5-cylinder 75hp engine generates as much torque as the 85hp 279 cu. in. 4-cylinder used in the 85hp M.

    It's an efficient powerplant. High torque with a very high torque rise. With less fuel.

    AKfish
    I don't find that my 5225 makes much more torque with the 5030 engine, when both are at neutral or in gear the 5085M will always accelerate faster and climb hills better but the 5085M does like its fuel.

  7. #17
    Elite Member AKfish's Avatar
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    JD 5075M; JD 110 TLB; Ford Ferguson 9N: JD X300R

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Well... if that 85hp engine didn't leave the 55hp tractorin a cloud of black smoke - I'd bet you'd have traded it off a long time ago; and probably upgraded to something altogether different!!

    You have any problems with your 5225? How many hours?

    AKfish
    "Most people want to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it."

  8. #18
    Elite Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    JD 4255/Kubota M7040 HDC

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKfish View Post
    If you're really interested to know "why" Deere would go with the 5-cylinder engine vs the older, 3-cyl and 4-cyl models... take a look at these
    The 5-cylinder generates considerably more torque than the equivalent 3-cylinder at a lower rpm and less fuel. As well, the 5-cylinder 75hp engine generates as much torque as the 85hp 279 cu. in. 4-cylinder used in the 85hp M.It's an efficient powerplant. High torque with a very high torque rise. With less fuel.
    AKfish
    AKfish
    The title of my original post was "Why so few models had a 5 cyl engine?". But this is interesting information. Note which tractor has the higher HP hrs per gal and it's not the 5 cyl engine.
    5075E
    Rated Engine Speed—(PTO speed—545 rpm)
    62.16 2401 4.08 0.462 15.24

    5075M
    Rated Engine Speed—(PTO speed—566 rpm)
    60.12 2201 4.21 0.493 14.27

    5085M
    Rated Engine Speed—(PTO speed—566 rpm)
    70.37 2200 4.68 0.468 15.03
    Last edited by Tx Jim; 01-30-2013 at 12:31 PM.

  9. #19
    Veteran Member
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    Deere, several

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Can't say I'm a fan of a five cylinder. They are kind of a niche market novelty item looking for an application. There is a gap between the three cylinder and the six cylinder that is a compromise to fill. Do we use a vibration inherent four banger and balance shafts? A small natural aspirated six that is too long? Or compromise with a five?
    That little three cylinder 179cu inch Dubuque/Saran turbo is nifty. With an intercooler they can squeeze 80-90HP out of those . 45-50HP natural aspirated. A natural aspirated 359 Dubuque/Saran will do 90HP easy enough at only 1800rpm.
    So what do you do in that 50-100HP range ?

  10. #20
    Veteran Member
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    S. W. Virginia
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    Kubota B3200, Ford NAA, IH 454D, Case 1845C

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by buickanddeere View Post
    Can't say I'm a fan of a five cylinder. They are kind of a niche market novelty item looking for an application. There is a gap between the three cylinder and the six cylinder that is a compromise to fill. Do we use a vibration inherent four banger and balance shafts? A small natural aspirated six that is too long? Or compromise with a five?
    That little three cylinder 179cu inch Dubuque/Saran turbo is nifty. With an intercooler they can squeeze 80-90HP out of those . 45-50HP natural aspirated. A natural aspirated 359 Dubuque/Saran will do 90HP easy enough at only 1800rpm.
    So what do you do in that 50-100HP range ?
    In sticking with your theme of engines (Saran), how about using the 239cu. in. four cylinder Deere used for many years. We have one in a 2550, zero vibration, plenty of torque rise and very good longevity.
    Kubota B3200
    Ford NAA Jubilee
    International 454D
    Case 1845C skid steer
    JD 265

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