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  1. #21
    Elite Member
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    Deere, several

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    That's because they made room in the engine, have the extra weight and expense. Not such a problem in an off road Ag or Industrial application.
    The balanced four cylinder has served well enough around here too. 2120, 1830, 1640, 1840, and 2355.
    Tough to beat the inline six diesel design where applicable.

  2. #22
    Super Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Verticaltrx
    The 276 cid engine in the 5085M is just a big brother to the 239 cid.

  3. #23
    Platinum Member Edward. S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKfish View Post
    Well... if that 85hp engine didn't leave the 55hp tractorin a cloud of black smoke - I'd bet you'd have traded it off a long time ago; and probably upgraded to something altogether different!!

    You have any problems with your 5225? How many hours?

    AKfish
    Not really, only problem I had this year was a broken clutch cable, and about 750?

  4. #24
    Super Member AKfish's Avatar
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    JD 5075M; JD 110 TLB; JD 4720; Ford 9N; JD X300R

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tx Jim View Post
    AKfish
    The title of my original post was "Why so few models had a 5 cyl engine?". But this is interesting information. Note which tractor has the higher HP hrs per gal and it's not the 5 cyl engine.
    5075E
    Rated Engine Speed?PTO speed?45 rpm)
    62.16 2401 4.08 0.462 15.24

    5075M
    Rated Engine Speed?PTO speed?66 rpm)
    60.12 2201 4.21 0.493 14.27

    5085M
    Rated Engine Speed?PTO speed?66 rpm)
    70.37 2200 4.68 0.468 15.03
    I did see that... although, I'm not quite sure that I hold much to that. Those statistics are measured pretty much at WOT. And that's on the downslope of the Hp/torque curve. Take a look at the max power statistics.

    I don't usually work my tractor's at WOT.

    Generally, I set the throttle a couple hundred above the peak torque rpm's (unless I need 540 pto - and the 5030 540epto is 1,750 rpm) so, whenever I hit a hard spot in the field, etc. any drop in the engine rpm's places the engine right in the best rpm range to pull on through.

    Better question might be why Deere phased out the 219-239 cu. in. engines.

    AKfish
    "Most people want to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it."

  5. #25
    Super Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKfish View Post
    .
    Better question might be why Deere phased out the 219-239 cu. in. engines. AKfish
    Simple answer to your question is PROGRESS. I still wonder why JD chose such few models to utilize the 5 cyl engine.

  6. #26
    Super Member AKfish's Avatar
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    JD 5075M; JD 110 TLB; JD 4720; Ford 9N; JD X300R

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tx Jim View Post
    Simple answer to your question is PROGRESS. I still wonder why JD chose such few models to utilize the 5 cyl engine.
    That's a logical explanation. Nonetheless, most business decisions revolve around money. The M lineup is a premium "price" level for 5000 machines. Deere can afford to put the 5-cylinder engine in those tractors and still make money. I have little doubt that the 3-cylinder engine is a lower cost powerplant for Deere. That said, you'd expect that Deere would stand to generate more profit by continuing the 5000E&D build (3-cylinder 179 cu.in.) on up into the M lineup @ 65-75hp.

    But... I think the 5-cylinder will outperform an equivalent Hp 3-cylinder engine. And, I believe that Deere expects that people will pay more for that and be more inclined to move up to the M models as a result. Why spend more money for a 5065M-5075M when it's the same "basic" tractor as the 5065E-5075E; if they all had the same 3-cylinder engine? So, Deere went with the 5-cylinder..

    Personally, I would have been less hesitant (when I bought my 5075M) if Deere would have offered the lower Hp M tractors with the 4-cylinder 219-239 cu.in. engines. I'm real old-school that way - more cu.in. is always better. Then, when I started digging a bit on the NE test site, I noticed that the 4.5L (276 cu.in.) engine has been used all the way up into the 7000 tier machines!!! They built the 7130 with both a 414 cu.in. powerplant and the 276 cu.in.????

    I know which model I'd buy....

    However, when I dug around a bit further - it became apparent that Deere has been juggling with engine builds to comply with the emission Tiers. They're working to meet the pollution mandates with the least effects upon fuel economy, reliability and technological capabilities. And of course, money - their costs vs their competitors.

    Now, we've got engines with 4 valves per cylinder and variable vane turbochargers, and computer controls that are mind blowing; etc. etc.

    AKfish
    "Most people want to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it."

  7. #27
    Platinum Member Edward. S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKfish View Post
    That's a logical explanation. Nonetheless, most business decisions revolve around money. The M lineup is a premium "price" level for 5000 machines. Deere can afford to put the 5-cylinder engine in those tractors and still make money. I have little doubt that the 3-cylinder engine is a lower cost powerplant for Deere. That said, you'd expect that Deere would stand to generate more profit by continuing the 5000E&D build (3-cylinder 179 cu.in.) on up into the M lineup @ 65-75hp.

    But... I think the 5-cylinder will outperform an equivalent Hp 3-cylinder engine. And, I believe that Deere expects that people will pay more for that and be more inclined to move up to the M models as a result. Why spend more money for a 5065M-5075M when it's the same "basic" tractor as the 5065E-5075E; if they all had the same 3-cylinder engine? So, Deere went with the 5-cylinder..

    Personally, I would have been less hesitant (when I bought my 5075M) if Deere would have offered the lower Hp M tractors with the 4-cylinder 219-239 cu.in. engines. I'm real old-school that way - more cu.in. is always better. Then, when I started digging a bit on the NE test site, I noticed that the 4.5L (276 cu.in.) engine has been used all the way up into the 7000 tier machines!!! They built the 7130 with both a 414 cu.in. powerplant and the 276 cu.in.????

    I know which model I'd buy....

    However, when I dug around a bit further - it became apparent that Deere has been juggling with engine builds to comply with the emission Tiers. They're working to meet the pollution mandates with the least effects upon fuel economy, reliability and technological capabilities. And of course, money - their costs vs their competitors.

    Now, we've got engines with 4 valves per cylinder and variable vane turbochargers, and computer controls that are mind blowing; etc. etc.

    AKfish
    The 7130 has the 6.8 and the 4.5. Until spring 2010 they put the 6.8 into it, now it has the 4.5, I would like to have 6.8 in that rather than a smaller 4.5 but I think the 7130 is for people who want a long wheelbase with a smaller price.

  8. #28
    Super Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    AKfish
    Although I was chastised by a certain Canadian for starting this thread I think it has turned out to have some very valuable information. I'm with you on the larger cube engines. I liked to see if the 276 cid Tier lV has the same lugging ability as my 4255 with a 466 cid

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Given that emissions, fuel efficiency, production costs and retail price are the primary factors. And that Lugging Power is now something that is more often a programmed fuel curve. Instead of the injection pump staying at max delivery from max rpm and max load . Until the engine is lugged down past peak volumetric efficiency. Lugging power can be fudged.
    Any four stroke mechanical pump engine can look like a great lugged if it's peak HP was set at rpms high enough that volumetric efficiency is reduced to say 50%. Now lug that engine down to the rpms where volumetric efficiency is 85%. The engine looks like a wonderful lugged and a "powerful machine".
    Now take a computer controlled variable boost and computer controlled injection. You can dial in more boost at peak rpms . Anything between a flat torque curve which feels great while accelerating but feels weak when lugged. Up to a peaky torque curve where the engine could make twice the ft lbs at peak torque rpms than it does at peak HP rpms. It will feel sluggish accelerating but fell like a powerhouse when lugged.
    Answer is, " it all depends".

  10. #30
    Super Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by buickanddeere View Post
    Answer is, " it all depends".
    It all depends on what?? How does that enter into the limited number of models built with a 5 cyl engine?

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