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  1. #41
    Elite Member
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    Apr 2004
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    2,743
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    East Coast of Lake Huron
    Tractor
    Deere, several

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tx Jim View Post
    jd110
    buickanddeere mentioned a 3 cyl inter-cooled engine. Do you know if JD built that particular engine? I briefly searched but couldn't find a tractor model with one.
    Thanks,Jim
    Industrial

  2. #42
    Veteran Member
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    Dec 2009
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    S. W. Virginia
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    Kubota B3200, Ford NAA, IH 454D, Case 1845C

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tx Jim View Post
    AKfish
    Although I was chastised by a certain Canadian for starting this thread I think it has turned out to have some very valuable information. I'm with you on the larger cube engines. I liked to see if the 276 cid Tier lV has the same lugging ability as my 4255 with a 466 cid
    I too agree on the larger displacement engines, they will have far better lugging ability and low end torque than the smaller motor, regardless of the hp the are 'tuned' to, always has always will.

    Few examples, 2550 Deere with the 239ci (65 PTO hp) vs M9540 kubota with 230ci turbo (82 PTO hp). On paper the Kubota makes a lot more power, but it comes at a real peak. When you start lugging it down the power really drops off. The Deere on the other hand which has about the same sized engine just keeps pulling strong until about 1400rpms.

    '99 F-250 with 7.3L diesel vs '10 Dodge with 6.7L diesel. The Dodge makes a lot more torque and pulls great if you are between 2000-3000rpms. If you are not in that narrow powerband the power is pretty weak and off-idle torque is non-existent. The old 7.3L does have a bit of a peak in power when the turbo really spools up, but the power is over a much flatter curve and the low-end/off-idle torque is tremendous.

    Same with gassers, I have a well-built 351w in a '79 F-150 that makes about 400lb-ft, but at 3000-3500rpms, also have a 460 in an '88 Ford that makes 400lb-ft, but peak torque is at 1800rpms.


    A bit off topic, but as inconsequential as it may be, I much prefer the sound of a good big displacement 4cyl or 6cyl tractor engine over a 5cyl. Our 2550 sounds like a small dozer when you are working it hard, and we all know how good those big displacement sixes sound under a load.
    Kubota B3200
    Ford NAA Jubilee
    International 454D
    Case 1845C skid steer
    JD 265

  3. #43
    Elite Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    North Texas
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    JD 4255/Kubota M7040 HDC

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by buickanddeere View Post
    Industrial

    Industrial tractor,power unit or what??? What cid(L) engine?

  4. #44
    Elite Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    North Texas
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    JD 4255/Kubota M7040 HDC

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Verticaltrx
    What testing source do you use to obtain the info on the kubota engine? What in your opinion are the reasons a Kubota engine falls behind the JD in the tests?

  5. #45
    Super Member AKfish's Avatar
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    Oct 2004
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    5,151
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    Kasilof, Alaska
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    JD 5075M; JD 110 TLB; JD 4720; Ford 9N; JD X300R

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tx Jim View Post
    Verticaltrx
    What testing source do you use to obtain the info on the kubota engine? What in your opinion are the reasons a Kubota engine falls behind the JD in the tests?
    The Nebraska tractor test lab has alot of that info... gotta pay to see the graphs for torque curve/hp, though. (Dagnabbit!!) Be interesting to note how "peaky" some engines are versus another.

    AKfish
    "Most people want to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it."

  6. #46
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    Feb 2009
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    NC

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    5065M
    TractorData.com John Deere 5065M tractor tests information

    This link automatically opens a PDF file:
    NEBRASKA TRACTOR TEST 1958 JOHN DEERE 5065M DIESEL 12 SPEED
    http://tractortestlab.unl.edu/deere/5065m.pdf
    '11 John Deere 5065M /cab
    '10 Kubota L3940 w/FEL
    '09 JD X720
    '91 CaseIH 5140 Maxxum w/cab
    '78 IH 686 w/M&W Turbo 106 PTO hp w/canopy

  7. #47
    Platinum Member
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    Mar 2008
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    599

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    If you read into their theory it is the best of both worlds between the four and the six ( 70-90 ) hp gap. It is a John Deere design engineered around the tier two emissions standards. For years they have relied on Yanmar for their small applications. It is looking like Deere is going back to the drawing board and design / build in their own back yard. GM has gone to the five cylinder engines in light trucks and suvs. By design it would not work well with a carburetor but with modern pressure fuel injection and counter balance shafts it hits the emissions goals.
    Deere will be using them more extensively in the future.

  8. #48
    Elite Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    North Texas
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    JD 4255/Kubota M7040 HDC

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKfish View Post
    The Nebraska tractor test lab has alot of that info... gotta pay to see the graphs for torque curve/hp, though. (Dagnabbit!!) Be interesting to note how "peaky" some engines are versus another.
    AKfish
    I couldn't find a Nebraska test on a kubota tractor nor do I think Kubota's are tested at Nebraska.

  9. #49
    Veteran Member
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    S. W. Virginia
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    Kubota B3200, Ford NAA, IH 454D, Case 1845C

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tx Jim View Post
    Verticaltrx
    What testing source do you use to obtain the info on the kubota engine? What in your opinion are the reasons a Kubota engine falls behind the JD in the tests?
    Seat of the pants testing pulling the same 446 Deere round baler behind each tractor. (Kubota doesn't test at Nebraska so I don't know where you'd find any real info.)

    Both tractors will pull the baler at a good clip in moderate to heavy hay. The Deere will pull down quicker in a tough spot since it has less HP, but often the torque rise will keep you going through if the rpms stay above 1500. With the Kubota it takes a bigger load of hay to pull it down initially, but once you get out of the peak power it really starts dropping RPMs quick forcing a downshift. With that said, the Kubota has to run at a bit less than rated RPM to get 540 on the pto. Nothing scientific about it at all, just some observations I've made.

    I feel like there is just a certain amount of torque you can get out of a given displacement before the power gets 'peaky'. I have never run one, but I imagine the 179cu Deere tractors that are up to 75hp or so would feel similar. About 40-45 PTO hp is what I think the sweet spots is for those engines based on my 5203 and 2150's I've used in the past.
    Kubota B3200
    Ford NAA Jubilee
    International 454D
    Case 1845C skid steer
    JD 265

  10. #50
    Super Member AKfish's Avatar
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    Kasilof, Alaska
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    JD 5075M; JD 110 TLB; JD 4720; Ford 9N; JD X300R

    Default Re: Why did JD put a 5 cyl engine in only 2 tractor models?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tx Jim View Post
    I couldn't find a Nebraska test on a kubota tractor nor do I think Kubota's are tested at Nebraska.
    Yeah... there's a few on there. 8-9 different Kubota models. (Don't you have a wife that points out - to you, exactly - where that thing is that you can't find is...??)

    AKfish
    "Most people want to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it."

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