rockyridgefarm
Elite Member
Ok, I'll take my whoopin' and go sit in the corner (on my 4310...)
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JD compacts made in Japan & China
- Thread starter Wan4me
- Start date
Docsknotinn
Veteran Member
Ken, Where did you get that info ? The info I have says assembled in Georgia with a high % of US parts. Just curious. I agree with Pete though, it is a some what moot point. I do like to buy as much made in the USA as possible. Its also my understanding that the little Kubotas are made the same way in Georgia. Either way its been good to me so far. Loooking at JD's subsidiaries they have been a Global corp a long time. As far as comparisons to Jinma, I think they are nice machines for the price point and getting more popular by the day. There are a few dealers in MI now so all of the freight etc is not a issue here. Their not for me but I do think that what I looked at on a comparison basis was certainly a lot less $$ than JD. Of course it was less tractor too. I buy JD for a few reasons only. It was what grand dad had and I like that connection to the past even if the made in the USA idea is slightly dillusional. I like the parts network and If I am several hundred miles away and need a repair I do not have to tow it to the far side of the world for repair. I am not sure their is ever a totally rational explanation for brand loyalty. Its just what I like for my $$ in my garage. After a while I think many of us come to reralize that the only truelly bad tractor is a broken one. I would take a Jinma or even a rust bucket any day over a shovel and a wheel barrow again. Dave
Soundguy
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</font><font color="blueclass=small">( Yea it's like buying a Yugo compared to a Camry. There is a huge difference. Just because JD doesn't build a part somewhere they have strict quality control over every part built.....snip )</font>
I fail to see how that message was in any way germain in reference to my post about dollars and cents.. No where did I mention quality.. just bottom dollar compaired to bottom dollar.. Is the deere a 30hp tractor as well? if it is.. and theay are the same price.. THEN you can look at quality... if the deere is less hp.. other factors come into play.. and it isn't / can't be an apples to apples comparison... not that I'm a big deere or chineese fan. I think Deere is overpriced, compaired to some of the other domestic manufacturers, yeilding similar quality products. And while I have a passing interest in the chineese products, I think I'll wait till the support network is a bit more in place ( seems to be getting better every day ).
Still ... hard to pass up thinking about a 20hp tractor for 3 grand.. new.... I've bought 'toys' / projects .. or used tractors in need of repair for more than that... go figure...
Soundguy
I fail to see how that message was in any way germain in reference to my post about dollars and cents.. No where did I mention quality.. just bottom dollar compaired to bottom dollar.. Is the deere a 30hp tractor as well? if it is.. and theay are the same price.. THEN you can look at quality... if the deere is less hp.. other factors come into play.. and it isn't / can't be an apples to apples comparison... not that I'm a big deere or chineese fan. I think Deere is overpriced, compaired to some of the other domestic manufacturers, yeilding similar quality products. And while I have a passing interest in the chineese products, I think I'll wait till the support network is a bit more in place ( seems to be getting better every day ).
Still ... hard to pass up thinking about a 20hp tractor for 3 grand.. new.... I've bought 'toys' / projects .. or used tractors in need of repair for more than that... go figure...
Soundguy
Soundguy
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What size is that deere? Is it also a 30hp tractor? If it isn't the same hp category... It is a hard comparison... would be better to do apples to apples.. even if one apple is only 50% the quality of the other apple.. that will emphasize the differences even more IMHO.
Soundguy
Soundguy
Soundguy
Soundguy
bigpete
Veteran Member
That's a good point, Soundguy. Admittedly, I was just firing off a sarcastic snipe, which I am known to do on occasion.
I haven't done a side-by-side comparison of the models so I can't say definitively that they are similar. I do believe the 4310 is either 30 or 32 HP, though.
I haven't done a side-by-side comparison of the models so I can't say definitively that they are similar. I do believe the 4310 is either 30 or 32 HP, though.
Soundguy
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Oh I don't take it personal... my internet callus is pretty thick these days.
Back to the 4110.. I can find specs for a 4100.. am ~guessing~ that is a similar tractor.. if so.. were are talking about a 19hp ( quality built-domestic) tractor compaired to an economy lower brand 30hp tractor. 11hp.. is ..well.. almost another tractor.. hard to dismiss with a wave of the hand...
I realize we are compairing more or less a tractor from one of ( if not the biggest ) the largest ag product companies to one from a nation just emerging in cross border industrialization.. but then thats why you get the big price swing.... with a 19 hp tractor costing as much as the 30hp 'cheaper' one.. that is where the decision making gets personal... loss / risk benefit ratios.. intended uses? etc.. have to come to play.
I.e. .. if you needed a light duty small estate tractor and the 4110 with the laoder / back hoe fit your bill.. but yet it wasn't going to be overworked or ground into the dirt 16 hours a day.. a 30hp tractor with loader / backhoe might be a better 'deal'... less stress as it is a bigger tougher tractor.. .. albiet slightly inferior design casting / technology.. etc... ( granted )..
Just my opinion..... standard disclaimers apply.. etc
p.s. -- If the model we are talking about is not a 4110, etc.. obviously we can disreguard the rhetoric... etc.. I just read back thru and can't find the message that showed the original comparison anyway... go figure.. so where's the original poster anyway? fire get to hot? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Soundguy
Back to the 4110.. I can find specs for a 4100.. am ~guessing~ that is a similar tractor.. if so.. were are talking about a 19hp ( quality built-domestic) tractor compaired to an economy lower brand 30hp tractor. 11hp.. is ..well.. almost another tractor.. hard to dismiss with a wave of the hand...
I realize we are compairing more or less a tractor from one of ( if not the biggest ) the largest ag product companies to one from a nation just emerging in cross border industrialization.. but then thats why you get the big price swing.... with a 19 hp tractor costing as much as the 30hp 'cheaper' one.. that is where the decision making gets personal... loss / risk benefit ratios.. intended uses? etc.. have to come to play.
I.e. .. if you needed a light duty small estate tractor and the 4110 with the laoder / back hoe fit your bill.. but yet it wasn't going to be overworked or ground into the dirt 16 hours a day.. a 30hp tractor with loader / backhoe might be a better 'deal'... less stress as it is a bigger tougher tractor.. .. albiet slightly inferior design casting / technology.. etc... ( granted )..
Just my opinion..... standard disclaimers apply.. etc
p.s. -- If the model we are talking about is not a 4110, etc.. obviously we can disreguard the rhetoric... etc.. I just read back thru and can't find the message that showed the original comparison anyway... go figure.. so where's the original poster anyway? fire get to hot? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Soundguy
cowboydoc
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Well it's not a mute point. The reason that, at least in my pretty good experience, Deere is more expensive is because of the quality. If you really know what you're doing and what to look for the quality is so obvious it isn't even funny. Then go and run one for 16 hours a day seven days a week. That's when you really know what's better and what's not. I'm not putting anybody down but when you only go out and run something a couple hours/week and don't even put on 100 hours a year you don't know the difference. I get so tired of seeing so many people on here quoting stats or weight or any other sales brochure as fact. Heck you can take anything and make it look good with the right marketing. And weight is so ridiculous. Cheap steel weighs more. That's why alot of the off brands weigh more! And other things like sound dampeners, engine reserve, hydraulics, etc. etc. etc. make alot of difference.
And specs are not specs. Many tractor rate their gross hp, others net hp. You can't go off of what the mfg. tells you as gospel. You need to know how they arrived at those hp #'s. The numbers are so skewed it's not even funny as far as comparing apples to apples.
I can look at two computers and say they're the same. I can even use one and say x is as good as y. But there are some of you here who are computer experts and can tell in a heartbeat the difference and say which one is a piece of crap and which one is good. To me they both look good but the poorer quality one is $300 cheaper. I buy the $300 cheaper one and never know any better. And you can take the same computer I work on and say that thing sucks. But for me heck I don't know any better and it works great for me. But it's not a top end computer for you because you know what one should really be like. I can tell you that x is as good as y but I really don't evne know I'm not smart enough to know. There is a difference and many times there is a huge difference. You just have to know the difference.
And specs are not specs. Many tractor rate their gross hp, others net hp. You can't go off of what the mfg. tells you as gospel. You need to know how they arrived at those hp #'s. The numbers are so skewed it's not even funny as far as comparing apples to apples.
I can look at two computers and say they're the same. I can even use one and say x is as good as y. But there are some of you here who are computer experts and can tell in a heartbeat the difference and say which one is a piece of crap and which one is good. To me they both look good but the poorer quality one is $300 cheaper. I buy the $300 cheaper one and never know any better. And you can take the same computer I work on and say that thing sucks. But for me heck I don't know any better and it works great for me. But it's not a top end computer for you because you know what one should really be like. I can tell you that x is as good as y but I really don't evne know I'm not smart enough to know. There is a difference and many times there is a huge difference. You just have to know the difference.
bigpete
Veteran Member
Soundguy,
<font color="blue"> ...hard to pass up thinking about a 20hp tractor for 3 grand.. new.... I've bought 'toys' / projects .. or used tractors in need of repair for more than that </font>
That perspective occurs to me, too. Kinda' like looking at a tracor as almost "disposable" if they are that cheap. Up in the Great White North or Alaska, some developers literally drop a piece of equipment into a remote area with no intention of ever bringing it back out. I guess if I wanted to clear some land up there that might be an option. Worst case scenario is that you need to spend another $3 grand and drop another tractor in. Heck, for $3 grand each you could go through a few of those over 10-15 years and still be ahead of the game. As long as the same thing didn't break on each one, you could cannibalize for parts.
Oh well. Just musing here.
<font color="blue"> ...hard to pass up thinking about a 20hp tractor for 3 grand.. new.... I've bought 'toys' / projects .. or used tractors in need of repair for more than that </font>
That perspective occurs to me, too. Kinda' like looking at a tracor as almost "disposable" if they are that cheap. Up in the Great White North or Alaska, some developers literally drop a piece of equipment into a remote area with no intention of ever bringing it back out. I guess if I wanted to clear some land up there that might be an option. Worst case scenario is that you need to spend another $3 grand and drop another tractor in. Heck, for $3 grand each you could go through a few of those over 10-15 years and still be ahead of the game. As long as the same thing didn't break on each one, you could cannibalize for parts.
Oh well. Just musing here.
cowboydoc
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Soundguy they are talking about comparing a 4310 not a 4110. Look back at page 1 of this thread and Mike's comments.
Soundguy
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Again.. I think your whole post missed my point. ( and the boat ).
I've never disputed the quality of Deere & Co's equipment.. in fact, along with the rest of the 'big 3' I accept it as 'assumed'.
Considering I can look out my office window and survey about 4 million dollars worth of yellow and green iron ( Caterpilar, J/D Komatsu, etc, etc, ).. I'm well aware of the comparible value of equipment. I see the expendatures involved with this equipment on a daily basis. I've seen both sides of the cost benefit ratio concerning cheaper alternative equipment. The 2 schools being... buy expensive and good, and then it holds up with less upkeep and costs, and has a longer lifespan vs. buy cheap, use it, and throw it away or scrap it rather than loose money on repairs.
The rental concept of equipment follows this. We often figure in the price of a piece of equipment in a job we bid.. purchase that equipment for that job, and then sell after the job.. same with rental. Except for equipment that is used common to all or many jobs... generally works out ok. As for the accidents and big unseen repairs.. I figure if it happened to the cheap one.. there is a good chance that the expensive equipment might have been damaged as well , in the same incident.. etc.
Same goes with our land clearing... we opt to buy 500$ rotary cutters to clear road right of way, and replace them every year, rather than buy 1500$ ones and repalce them every 18 months to 2 years... money works out better... Considering the metal, debri, rocks, tires / rims / seat cushions, etc that people lovingly 'donate' to the roadside.. I've seen 1500$ cutters destroyed 15 minutes after being on the job, requiring everything from the gearbox to the blade carrier to the blades replaced.
Still.. quality is a second point in a comparison.. you first have to start on some kind of common ground for the comparison. Rated HP is as good as any as that is what you usually size the 'job' off of. At that point you research qality, history, specs, valadity of specs, and then make the decision.
At this point, I understand your opinion, and hope you understand that I also have my opinion. It should be obvious that I'm not disagreeing with you , but rather agreeing with you on realative quality. The only point I differ on is that you have to have a common frame of reverence before you make a ( valid) comparison.
Soundguy
I've never disputed the quality of Deere & Co's equipment.. in fact, along with the rest of the 'big 3' I accept it as 'assumed'.
Considering I can look out my office window and survey about 4 million dollars worth of yellow and green iron ( Caterpilar, J/D Komatsu, etc, etc, ).. I'm well aware of the comparible value of equipment. I see the expendatures involved with this equipment on a daily basis. I've seen both sides of the cost benefit ratio concerning cheaper alternative equipment. The 2 schools being... buy expensive and good, and then it holds up with less upkeep and costs, and has a longer lifespan vs. buy cheap, use it, and throw it away or scrap it rather than loose money on repairs.
The rental concept of equipment follows this. We often figure in the price of a piece of equipment in a job we bid.. purchase that equipment for that job, and then sell after the job.. same with rental. Except for equipment that is used common to all or many jobs... generally works out ok. As for the accidents and big unseen repairs.. I figure if it happened to the cheap one.. there is a good chance that the expensive equipment might have been damaged as well , in the same incident.. etc.
Same goes with our land clearing... we opt to buy 500$ rotary cutters to clear road right of way, and replace them every year, rather than buy 1500$ ones and repalce them every 18 months to 2 years... money works out better... Considering the metal, debri, rocks, tires / rims / seat cushions, etc that people lovingly 'donate' to the roadside.. I've seen 1500$ cutters destroyed 15 minutes after being on the job, requiring everything from the gearbox to the blade carrier to the blades replaced.
Still.. quality is a second point in a comparison.. you first have to start on some kind of common ground for the comparison. Rated HP is as good as any as that is what you usually size the 'job' off of. At that point you research qality, history, specs, valadity of specs, and then make the decision.
At this point, I understand your opinion, and hope you understand that I also have my opinion. It should be obvious that I'm not disagreeing with you , but rather agreeing with you on realative quality. The only point I differ on is that you have to have a common frame of reverence before you make a ( valid) comparison.
Soundguy